Ulterior States [IamSatoshi Documentary]

Subtitles, created by Przemyslaw Baginski As I have been standing here, I’ve been thinking back to the last war. When the bombing was on, and we heard
that there was a heavy bombing around St Paul’s cathedral So i immediately walked over here and i stood down the road there every building by St Paul’s was ablaze and i said to myself: “The hand of God is on St Paul’s” And this morning i went back to church and i was praying to God about you all I thought i would wander over and then see what was happening You have every right in this world to make a protest and create a situation Andreas Antonopoulos: I think there’s certainly a disparity of justice going on which is a theme that’s been occurring really for centuries, but when it starts affecting the middle class, people notice that there are multi-tier justice systems. And some people have always been getting away with the worst crimes and some others never get away with anything. It’s becoming quite noticeable in the states in western developed nations now how there are multi-tier justice systems, but it’s not different than the past It’s just that the middle class used to not be the part of the lower justice tier the lower justice tier have expanded to include them. Jaromil: We have an emergency of sociopathy on the top of this pyramid i mentioned. The people truly are not empathizing with any social argument. They are living in another world, in a world of segregation. Daniel Hassan: Why would people trust the banks? I mean it’s just common sense that people have gathered together to express anger at the way the things are Jonathan Harrison: I kind of believe in “free market” stuff But even if you dont, even if you’re far in the left, you’re green, whoever you are We all kind of hate the banks right now. They’re parasitical, they don’t do.. they don’t deserve the money that they make. Chris Ellis: We’re going to need better tools for dealing with a lot of the volatility that we see in the world. We’re going to need this anti-fragile systems These systems that can withstand short sharp shocks. Julia Tourianski: I guess that’s the criticism on like the hippie-dippie movement for peace, without any kind of “the evils of monetary exchange” when the monetary exchange empowers individuals on a very basic, basic level Amir Taaki: It’s not a way that we can continue And, really, i think the goal is not to save the world, you know because some people don’t want to be saved What we have to start to do is start to think how we can carve out a safe operating space for the future, where we as freedom loving people can survive, thrive, and grow Cody Wilson: The idea was how to introduce a hyper-real antagonistic symbol to what we see as a hyper-real order the one that would induce endless revisions and cycles of trouble that couldn’t be answered in traditional way. So if you want me to just give you a gun, you’d get arrested, right? But to give you like the capacity, the potentiality of a gun, in the Internet in it’s kind of infinite replicability, and ever-presence all over the world was a challenge, a kind of gift that the world system just couldn’t respond to. Rick Falkvinge: As long as the code pays for it’s own execution it’ll keep running in the network. And i think that opens up far more possibilities than we consider today. Sveinn Valfells: Isaac Newton was an explorer, and his tinkering with things that didn’t work gave him a great sense of what would work. so he was an innovator, a scientist, a hacker. Jaromil: What a hacker is today? It’s a very debated, described, over-described. We have books coming out on hackers, we have marked our presence in history as a culture, as a cultural movement. And i think we have marked it very well so far, although we have had losses and we have things to really worry and people to remember Yet i think we achieved already a good position, and next iteration – our danger, our bigger danger is to be too self-referential, to not recognize the agency of other people, of other areas of expertise And again, the fact that we are social animals, that isolation is not an answer for well being for the welfare that we look for everywhere, so we have to go a little bit more social. Julian Assange: As many people all over the world [crowd repeats] who have worked towards [crowd repeats] from Cairo to London. [crowd repeats] Vinay Gupta: To me this brings back Phil Zimmerman, who is the guy that originally wrote Pretty Good Privacy which was the mother of all crypto inventions. So he took this work from academia and from the military, turned it into this package that offered military-grade encryption for civilian e-mail and basically fired the first shot in this kind of 20-year cypherpunk war. Zimmerman fought like hell for about 5 years with the U.S. government. They used to have to take the source code to PGP, print it out into books, export the books and then scan it again to get through the technical loophole with the U.S. law about banning the export of cryptography software. But it was no longer considered software if it was in the form of a book. and the fact that the government was willing to go to extraordinary lenghts to try to control cryptography, was an indicator that cryptography was fundamentally important. And here we are now 20 years later, we’re up to our eyeballs in the Snowden problem. This was exactly the problem that Zimmerman was aware of as a potential, and he turned out to be exactly right in practice. but because we never mass-deployed civilian cryptography of a high enough standard, we turned out with almost no defense against the government when it came to this huge power-grab that they’ve made. Elizabeth Starks: Professor Laurence Lessig, who in 1999 wrote his book entitled “Code is Law” Technically it’s “Code and Other Laws of Cyberspace”, but really the mantra that came out of that was “code is law”. The second is Gabriella Coleman, an anthropologist and scholar of hacker communities and online activism. Who has written about code and activism, and how code and free speech really align and we saw over the past i’d say almost two decades, this evolution where people didn’t merely view computer code or the infrastructure that’s built up around that as something that’s external, like a bridge, but instead people viewed it as a means of expression. Rick Falkvinge: I think there is a rather large symbiosis between the hacker community and Wikileaks community. The hacker community tends to regard truth and transparency as sacred values, so it’s kind of a net generation values thing, i don’t think they are two separate communities. Jaromil: At the same time in which Wikileaks leader Assange, Julian Assange was awarded with the Sam Adams prize for integrity and intelligence for the first time a non military person was awarded this prize opening up effectively in history the debate for what we need to do to actually evolve the way intelligence works in our time. Cutting off without a sentence that way to actually receive donations from people that appreciate that effort that has been a fundamental violation of network neutrality as it’s perceived by most hackers around it is a violation of even more than network neutrality, because what we call “network neutrality” is the politics of the Internet That is a violation of neutrality that we attribute to a network, the network of money on which the promise of capitalism is based on, that we can’t just look over and just go on with, that’s what most hackers thought. Erik Voorhees: What someone does with their own time and money is certainly one of the ways that they convey their personality to the world. Just as i can use my words to convince other people of something that i believe in, i can also use my money to help fund a project for something that i believe in. I don’t think there is any material difference between those two things. Rick Falkvinge: The Wikileaks financial blockade woke a lot of people up to how unhealthy it is that the United States based financial system essentially has a finger of death that they can point at any organization world-wide. That is a serious vulnerability, that is an unacceptable single point of failure. That essentially means that the U.S. government holds a kill-switch for everybody’s organization. Let that sink in for a minute. Julian Assange: This movement is not about the destruction of all [crowd repeats] This movement is about the construction of all! [crowd repeats] Nadav Rosenberg: People like stories, i also like stories so if you go to the Internet you can see all those stories of how money was developed Somebody invented it, but it never happened like that, it’s like language. It was developed in many different parts of the world, nobody thought and said “Okay i’m going to think about the concept of money, i’m going to invent the currency”, it did not happen. That’s why it is so hard to understand, because it’s just intuitively, as humans, we use this thing. Protester: Right, can you tell me, if most of the banks in Europe are owed money by other banks of the other states in Europe, plus a few outside How can they all raise each other out of the swamp? When each one props up another one, while by doing so goes down itself. Garrick Hileman: It’s just not something people ever questioned before or wondered about. I mean I ask people in all sorts of countries: “In your high school, your secondary education, did they ever sit down and explain to you how money comes into existence?” And i haven’t found a single education system yet
where it’s discussed as part of the core curriculum. Ian Grigg: It’s a complicated issue: do we want to teach people, or do we want people to learn about the nature of currencies, the nature of payment systems, the nature of local currencies? I think the answer would be it would be good to teach them about it, but we’re facing an uphill battle. The reason fundamentally comes back to the state’s desire to hold a monopoly over the payment systems. Brett Scott: Currency is not absolute, it changes over time. While right now we have a single, dominant idea of what currency means, that’s not been the same throughout history, and currencies have risen and fallen. Robin Teigland: There was a book recently, where they actually did inventory of alternative currencies, around 6000. Such as one with the WIR in Switzerland, it’s been around since 1932. You have “Naya paisa” coin with the Nakoda Indians in North-Western United States. You could even say you have some point systems, reward, so you have many different types. John Karanja: Certain Kenyan tribes in the past used to trade with coin shells, because it was a limited currency, so it was a good medium for exchange. Garrick Hileman: Let me get to your main question, which is the relationship between, say, alternative currencies and debt. So one thing that’s interesting when you look at things like the level of debt following World War I, where, you know, debt levels kind of climbed, of course, leading up through to The Great Depression, after World War II, and again today, when you see those kind of spikes in debt levels, and alongside that you have the introduction of new types of currency, new alternative currencies during the 30’s and 20’s after the war, during the war, there’s other examples of alternative currencies, certainly one of the most famous, of course is in Berlin, following the collapse of Nazi regime, They used cigarettes and alcohol as alternative currency. And then today with this massive build up in debt outside of any war which is the one big difference between today and 1940’s, or 20’s or 30’s We didn’t have a world war, but we have world war-levels of debt, you can again see a large proliferation of alternative currencies. Ian Grigg: What tends to happen, and we’ve seen this process many times over history As the economy dives because of problems in the way the economy has been managed centrally local currencies start to emerge like mushrooms after the rain. And they pop up in all the little different towns, where people have discovered that “Oh gosh! The bread maker is here, but he’s got no work.” “The butcher is here, but he’s not selling any meat.” “The hairdresser is there, but nobody can afford a haircut.” So the people will realise that all theese people are here, if they just have a token that circulates locally, they can get a little bit of trade going, so that the meat flows, the bread is made, the haircuts are done and all the local traders can get a little bit of activity going. Everybody’s there and waiting to work, but nobody’s got some cash. So we’ll create some cash and give it to the people. So if you like let systems and local currencies are local quantitative easing. They’re quantitative easing that bypasses the banking system and gets right down to the people. This is called “fractional reserve banking”, they need to hold 10% of the money in the account back with them, And they say “well, because someone owes us that money, technically we have that money.” So they loan now someone else 9 milion of that, and then they loan to the next person 8 million 100 thousand, and so on down the line. And then you effectively laundered millions and millions of pounds worth of cash just off that 10 million that they were allowed to create. – A great ponzi scheme.
– A great ponzi scheme. Simon Lelieveldt: The human mind is perfectly able to deal with huge amount of coins, rather than just one fiat currency, and a single note design and a single coin design. We can do even more than that, but we forgot it, over time we got used to this central system. We can go back to the other system if we want. Ian Grigg: The world of finance is extremely jealous of it’s territory. As soon as they see a version of finance popping up, even if it’s just a little Internet toy payment system, they get rather aggressive. Phonecalls are made, the central bankers are annoyed, the FSA is annoyed, the various regulators are annoyed, and they are pushed to do something about it. In the late 90’s, after DigiCash there were a lot of different ventures starting up and getting into the business, and a lot of them failed partly because they got no support from the finance people. One particularly famous system was E-Gold. E-Gold started up in about 1997 doing gold on the Internet, and built up it’s pace up until about 2000 or so, when it started to become profitable and started moving forward. Unfortunately E-Gold got into trouble, came into the attention of the Feds, and the Feds walked in there with weapons, SWAT teams and so forth, and took them down. After a period of 2 years worth of court cases, the whole thing was basically rolled over, and although E-Gold was still running, huge amounts of accounts has been siezed, nobody particularly trusted it, and nobody has particularly trusted the result. In essence it was shut down. Daniel Hassan: Getting rid of the networks is a different matter than your hard drive failing or subpoena against a server. Ian Grigg: The problem with our classical view of payment systems: Alice pays Bob, but goes through Ivan, the Server is that somebody, it doesn’t have to be the State, it can be anybody, can attack the server and shut it down, or steal the money etc. Andreas Antonopoulos: Because we couldn’t do decentralised currencies, we did centralised ones. Ian Grigg: And here’s where Satoshi Nakamoto had his, shall we say his genious stroke. Let’s not use some sort of heuristic… Let’s not use some sort of algorithm, let’s not use some sort of hierarchy. Let’s do a lottery, let’s create a lottery. We don’t care which of the transactions go forward, as long as it’s only one of them. Kyle Drake: I kind of have been calling myself a decentralist, which is this notion of preventing anyone of having so much power… Ian Grigg: We don’t really care anymore, which transaction was accepted, we only care who’s got the biggest number. And that is something that we can guarantee that cannot be spoofed. It cannot be attacked. Because of the calculation of the hash, the proof-of-work thing, this magical, cryptographic bla-bla-bla. Matt Corallo: Not depending on traditional cryptographic security, but really depending on economic incentives to encourage good behaviour, and as long as they work on macro-scale, the whole system remains secure and has this distributed consensus property. Ian Grigg: So if i give it an input, which is different? I cannot create that big number without going through massive amounts of processing. Everybody is therefore on the same footing. It is therefore a lottery, a fair lottery across all of the machines, One person gets to win the lottery, they get paid their 25 bitcoins for that, and that person is the one who chooses which transaction goes through, and therefore we have solved the double-spending problem. Chris Ellis: “Messages are sent on a best-effort basis. Nodes can leave and rejoin the network at will, whilst trusting the longest proof-of-work chain while they were gone.” [excerpt from Bitcoin whitepaper] This is all about what happens when we turn our backs on the system. Andreas Antonopoulos: Here’s the difference: If we had a 51% solution in an election, like in a democratic election for political party, that 51% would be able to temporarily, in a democracy without any other checks and balances seize control of the governing body and make changes. What changes could they make? A coup would go too far, so they would probably be subtle changes. but in most democracies those changes would reverberate through 4 years of governance, until they got kicked out. Well in Bitcoin terms that’s 10 minutes. And in those 10 minutes all they can do is double-spend a few transactions. The broader issue would be if you had a sustained 51% attack, who’s primary motivation would be to change core protocol. Essentialy to pull a coup on Bitcoin by changing the mechanics of the core protocol. In order to do that you would not only need a 51% attack, but you would have to make that coincide with an upgrade of the system. so that the majority chain actually move to a different version of a protocol, to a different version of the software. That scenario is impossible. And the reason is it’s impossible is because it’s not just the miners who have parts in the consensus system especially when we’re talkin about protocol changes. The miners can affect what is the longest block. But in order to affect which is the prevailing software choice, they have to persuade the users to change, they have to persuade the web wallets that represent millions of users to change, and they have to persuade the merchants to change. If the miners were to take the protocol in a direction that users don’t want to go to, they would find themselves on a majority chain, but they would find themselves on a majority chain empty of transactions. Because all the users would stay behind. A minority chain with actual transactions and merchants… …is the majority chain, because that’s where the value is. And so you can’t really hijack “Bitcoin” the software and “Bitcoin” the algorithm, or any crypto-currency with a 51% attack long-term in a coup, because you would lack the consent of the user wallets, and the web wallets, and the merchants, who wouldn’t follow you down that path, because it would be obvious. Mark Edge: I said “Sure, i wanna know about Bitcoins!”.
Apparently i had some at that point. And it was like somebody sent them to me, but i didn’t really know anything about them, they were in some wallet in some place in the Internet, but i’m like “Sure, i wanna know about them.”. So he came up, and we had lunch with Gavin Andresen. And we had lunch with him in a thai restaurant, and actually i picked his cab, and he paid me back in bitcoins when he got home. So we.. he sent me the bitcoins, and they were 25 cents at a time, and i guess if they had a 9 dollar cab, we’re talking about 36 bitcoins, which are worth hmm.. up to $4000 right now. so those were very profitable lunch for me, and i’m glad that Gavin came up. So we learned about bitcoins that day, he talked about them, but we were a bit sceptical, we were like “Oh, you know, there’s been a lot of alternative currency ideas floated about in the libertarian community before, but we’re interested.” So we talked about them on the air, i think it was that night but i weren’t 100% sure. Denis Jaromil Roio: Let’s look at it just like a small phenomenon. It was people going to online servers, like casinos, playing among themselves, and actually the service providers had nothing to do with them, their community, their money, and what they played, and what they loved to play. So they just wanted to play by themselves. They just wanted to have a channel, to have transactions amongst themselves as promised by the game, and go on and play it. Theese people got very early, in a very early stage involved in Bitcoin, because of a need, because of a felt, grass-root need. Pardon me, if you’re like really strong political believes that grass-roots must be only people fighting for social justice. but i think we must also see some constituency into the fact that people are coming out of the system in a transversal way, of the system that forced them into entering the temples, the palaces of the automatized administration of their games, and build their own little community. Erik Voorhees: Yes, yes, that’s why i’m interested in it – because it is a brilliant way of resistance without violence. Theese are usually the best ways to change people’s minds. Because if you have to get violent, then it’s very easy for oposition to vilify you and often with a very good cause. Vinay Gupta: Bitcoin doesn’t have a strong property right that allows top-down control of the Bitcoin systems. Because it was originally written in a very anarchist form, where it was run by a voluntary corporation, there is no owner of Bitcoin. So if Bitcoin would be developed by a proprietary company “Bitcoin Inc.”, there would be no denying that when the push meets the shove, the property right could decide who is in charge and “Bitcoin Inc.” would own the Bitcoin network. Julia Tourianski: The kind of anarchist vision is very… that community is very small in Bitcoin i find, even though it was the community that maybe birthed it. Elizabeth Starks: Our IRS, our Tax Office has said that Bitcoin is property. The New York state, California and others are trying to regulate Bitcoin as money. The S.E.C. that deals with securities, is looking at Bitcoin as technology for stocks and equities. The C.F.T.C. is looking at it as a means for futures, The FED is looking at it as a new form of central banking and issuing money. So i do believe Bitcoin it not just one thing, it’s many different things to many people. but what’s underlying it is this open-source P2P network and protocol. And without that you couldn’t have any of the other uses. Lui Smyth: Crisis – the word crisis – actually has the same root as the word critique. Crisis is any moment in history when the status quo stops functioning. And so the natural result of a crisis, a natural reaction is a critique. which is when people come in and point out why the system is not functioning properly, and they propose alternatives. So in that sense it’s natural that the global financial crisis of 2008 and onwards, i don’t know where you draw the lines It’s only natural that that crisis sparked a critique, and i think Bitcoin is a part of that critique. It’s a group of people saying “This is a different, alternative way of managing money”. Toni Lane: It is effectively the future, and the faster we embrace it, the faster we’ll be ahead when the game changes. Brett Scott: In a world where we’re increasingly moving away from physical cash towards more electronic transactions you kind of start to need a digital equivalent of cash, and i think that’s the really important role to play. So if you look at physical cash usage in our current society, it probably only makes up, i guess probably 3% to 5% of our money supply, i’m not sure it’s even that much. So it’s actually quite a small part of transactions that we do, but it could be succulent to the important part of transactions that we do. And without that people would be very unhappy i suspect. Bitcoin can fulfill that role in the sort of cashless world, become the digital version of this thing, that’s a very positive thing. Peter Todd: My transactions are speech. Bitcoin assumes that i’m free to publish those transactions. I’m free to tell other people about that information. Bitcoin assumes that data is easy to spread and hard to censor. That’s a fundamental assumption in how Bitcoin works. Rick Falkvinge: When i’m building my next business, i will not accept anybody else, in particular not a foreign power, to hold a kill-switch for my organization. So i think that blockade of Wikileaks will have much more far reaching implications for the price of Bitcoin and for the adoption of Bitcoin that what we’ve seen in theese years. It planted an idea that I don’t like the concept of a kill switch for my organization. And people start rebuilding it, and it will take years before it will have a full impact. Garrick Hileman: It’s really exciting to be the part of this, this opening up, if you will, of money to a wider conversation. Ian Grigg: The great thing that came out of Bitcoin was the realisation that we the people can do our own money. It doesn’t matter who we are. We didn’t have to go and get permission. We didn’t have to run an ad, we didn’t have to pay a fee, we didn’t have to follow a rule-book. We simply had to do it with the bit of software that got it up and going. And this is a huge opportunity to tell everybody that innovation belongs to us. And we can go out there and do whatever we want to, as long as we make the software work. We don’t need to go back to history and say “Oh, the british government has run the Pound Sterling for how many years? 3 centuries? Therefore we can’t do money.” No, that’s all over. We can do money if we want to, if we can make it happen. If we can bring together the community to make it happen. That is a viable option now. That wasn’t there before Bitcoin. Up until 2009 people like myself were working to produce theese systems, and we got told over and over again that we can’t do that. Not that we believed it. It doesn’t matter were we right or wrong, what it meant was there was no support, there was no market. Bitcoin has created a market and we can do something together. We can actually mediate theese situations together. Adam Cleary: 150 pounds at 5,25 trade it! Closing bells, ring-ring-ring-ring! Andreas Antonopoulos: I didn’t at first get it. I think i was in a place where i wasn’t ready at the time. And then the second time i heard about Bitcoin, for some reason i decided to try and go to the source, and read it from Satoshi Nakamoto’s paper. So i started reading Satoshi Nakamoto’s paper and i remember how at some point it just clicked. And i had this almost revelatory experience where i suddenly realised “Oh my God, it’s not a currency, it’s a network. And i get network, and i understand networks.” And not only it is a network, it achieves something incredible, it achieves consensus, it achieves trust without centralized authority. This is so much more important than currency, it’s so much bigger than currency. Chris Ellis: When people talk about Bitcoin they talk about tech, it’s fin-tech, it’s all about the buzz-word. It’s not. All of the tools that Satoshi employs in the implementation of Bitcoin in the Bitcoin whitepaper are all tools that were made before the year 2000. You got Merkle Trees, going back to late 70’s. You’ve got public key infrastructure, what’s that, early 90’s? And the you’ve got proof-of-work. Adam Back, 1997. We could have done this 14 years ago if we really really wanted it, but we didn’t want it enough. And i think any kind of system that allows 2 people to enter into an agreement with one another without requiring expensive court systems, and expensive legal processes is a very very powerful thing. Because if you’re trying to say that “Justice is the preserve of the rich”, then really what you’re saying that there is no justice. Ian Grigg: Triple entry takes us from this inside-the-corporate trusted scenario and extends it to other customers, to outside the company borders, into other companies. Because now we can now do is cryptographically sign an entry: Alice signs her payment to Bob, it goes out to some intermediary which could be the block chain, it could be the server. which gets signed again, and then it goes across to Bob. And now we’ve got three entries which are sitting there: We’ve got Alice and Bob sitting with their primary copies. and if they have any dispute, Ivan or the block chain is sitting in the middle, which guarantees that we’ve all got the same thing. Cryptography guarantees that we’ve got it, the third party guarantees that it’s not lost. So if Alice for example loses her copy, Bob can then say “well it didn’t exist”, but Ivan can say “yes it does exist.” And this is where for example the presence or absence issue is solved by that third party, is solved by the block chain. You can’t lose an entry once it goes to the block chain. Peter Todd: Step by step it kind of makes sense. It’s just kind of crazy to go from, like, accounting to somehow making decentralised money happen by burning energy. It takes while to get your head around i find. Julia Tourianski: It allows people to have a voice without being necessarily in the structural framework of a systems, right? They have created their own system, and if they like it they are gonna keep building on it. Amir Taaki: It’s really now that we see the applications of theese things come to fruition. You know, tools… It’s not just about Bitcoin as a payments innovation, Bitcoin is much more. It’s something deeper. It’s about tools of resource management, the tools of organization and collaboration between people, the tools of self-governance, tools of trade and business. These things that we can use to rethink how we can construct the society around us, to build systems that work better. Elizabeth Stark: What i’ve seen people do is they will provide evidence, they’ll go find evidence, and they use the block chain to verify that te evidence existed at a given time, they’ll use a public key and time-stamp it. And that’s a really interesting way of creating this kind of… it’s funny, we call it a paper-trail, but it’s not a paper-trail. It’s a trail based on a public-key cryptography, that then can be referenced, not only by the media outlets but anybody who’s researching this topic. Jessi Baker: We need the block chain,
because we need to have a trust network. That’s super, super essential. We need to have a trust network, so that we can carry information along supply-chains without revealing keys, without revealing who exactly people are in the supply-chain in order not to compromise competitive advantage. And we need to carry lots of different types of information, from verified certifications perhaps, depending on whole manner of things. but also information that perhaps isn’t having a third party to agree it being correct. So more intangible types of information. And we need a system that could allow us to do that in a trustworthy way, which is what the block chain provides so beautifully. Elizabeth Stark: Similarly i can envision a scenario in which people from not just occupied, but any movement, that want to have proof that a given, say, statement existed at a certain time-frame, or that a given event happened, say either video, or media, or otherwise, can use the block chain based technology, to have their verification. It could be also useful in refuting media outlets in tracking media coverage, and then you could envision the block chain that could track the media coverage and could be used everytime something comes up in media coverage that is false. You could have… trace that back to evidence showing that it’s untrue. Jessi Baker: The block chain has this affordance, that is so perfect for that problem which is that allows you to transfer information in a secure way, in a trustworthy way, without having to reveal exactly where that information came from which basically transforms the supply-chain transparency completely. Vinay Gupta: If we’re going to protect the past from the tyrants of the future, we need cryptography. And right now the best available mechanism for protecting the past from the tyrants of the future is the block chain. We can take what’s happened already, we can secure it with a vast… it’s a super-computer level computation or other cryptographic mechanisms. and at the end of that process it does not matter how much a future tyrant wants to change that past, they just don’t have the big enough computer to do the calculations to alter history. It is critically important that we protect the past from the future, because if we don’t do that in the next 50 or 100 or 200 years, Gandhi would never have existed. His ideas would be so dangerous that he’d be mopped out of reality and alghorithms would very carefully gloss over the holes. We must make sure that it is impossible for a future dictator to erase the history of humanity that might cause people to understand that they pain they feel is the pain that has been felt for centuries before them and that could be cured by political action. Andreas Antonopoulos: I see a lot of paralels with the early Internet, and to me Bitcoin is a platform and it is not just one but a series of protocols. At a very basic layer it is a P2P network for rapidly propagating blocks and transactions. On top of that you have almost TCP-like transaction layer withing the scripting language inside the transactions. And already we see other protocol layers above it. One of the things that people don’t realise in retrospect looking at the early Internet today, it appears as if it was the perfect protocol and it didn’t really have much competition. But that’s not true, even TCP/IP had plenty of competition and also plenty of criticism. Throuought the 90’s the prevailing attitude from the telecommunication providers was: “this will never scale to the level of voice.” “It can’t do Quality of Service. It can’t do video. It can’t scale to large levels” “and that’s why we need to continue using theese legacy fiber-optic networks.” Today all those legacy fiber-optic networks are running on top of TCP/IP. Turns out it could do voice, it could scale and it did scale. TCP/IP is a story of a protocol that was good enough and reached the scale where it achieved viral network effect, and embedded itself in computer science curricula, and in hardware, and in software implementations, And become so successful that now we can’t even upgrade it to IPv6, because it resists it’s own successor. I don’t thing we’re going to see Bitcoin permanently displaced by a successor. I think Bitcoin is good enough. I think Bitcoin has achieved the viral network effect. And i think it has already absorbed enough investment, that that creates momentum and inertia that will take Bitcoin very far. I do expect to see a lot of alternative currencies emerge. In fact over time i revised my opinion, and now i believe instead of 100’s or even 1000’s of alternative currencies, we’re going to see hundreds of thousands, possibly millions of alternative currencies. And all the way down to single person pseudo-currencies that are reputation management schemes, or funding schemes for individuals. Novelty coins, and fad-coins, and meme-coins, and coins created by 5- or 6- year olds in school to trade with their friends. We’re going to see millions of currencies. However all of theese currencies will come as successors to Bitcoin, and I think many of them – the ones that will achieve monetary value, will achieve it in collaboration with Bitcoin synergistically. In fact I wouldn’t be surprised if we see several coins backed by Bitcoin, where Bitcoin acts as the reserve currency, as the store of value for the long term consideration. Over time we may see Bitcoin used mostly for very large value transactions, very much like the gold standard. And then more nimble currencies take on a transactional role for day-to-day purchases and things like that, but if they do so, they only strenghten Bitcoin. They don’t replace it. Denis Jaromil Roio: Imagining the future, or what it means future is today, and what it really means to ambition society, tribing, with humans in there in the future. Now i’m not asking for purity at all. I love cybernetics, and The Cyberg Manifesto by Donna Haraway, and everything that came after that. So i think we can be transversal enough to cross several fields, but we have to not forget that we are also humans, and live among humans. And the most fun we have is with humans, even not in front, even if you’re a gamer, you have humans on the other side, and that’s what make it most fun. Vinay Gupta: Let me start with the quick story of what is the state. Max Weber’s definition of the state is that the state is the entity that has the monopoly on violence inside of bounded geographic territory, a legitimacy. The problem is that in the places where you really need to identify the state like, say, Gaza, this test fails. Because there is no monopoly on violence, but there are 4 or 5 entities that all act like the state, and to all intents and purposes there are many states sharing a single territory, there’s no monopoly on violence, but there’s a lot of guys with guns running around, telling you that they’re in charge. So i prefer to say that the state is any identity that can retroactively pardon a crime. If you pardoned murder, you get an army. If you pardoned assault, you get police. If you pardoned theft, you get taxation. 🙂 And this notion that there are sovereign ability to change the rules for limited numbers of people and license them to do things which are otherwise criminal, gives you a really clean definition of the state. The state is the thing that washes your hands when you do something which is inherently wrong. Then we look at this question of what you do when the state breaks down. You go to refugee camps, you go to civil wars, you go to any situation where everything has gone wrong. and suddenly you’ve got this fundamental problem, which is: “yes, we can’t really organize without the state,
we don’t have anything which is washing hands, we don’t have police, we don’t have an army, we don’t have taxation, we don’t have services and it’s all gone horribly wrong.” Sometimes those situations self-organize into reasonably functional like Somalia under the union of Islamic Courts, which allegedly have a pretty stable standard of living and not too much violence, but most of the time everything just goes to hell in a handbasket, stays there and the worst people in the society wind up in charge. Which is what you saw for example in most of the post-soviet area where the state withdrew and you just wind up with mafia and government fused. Terrible situation. So state-in-a-box is a pre-block chain concept about how a bunch of software, where you equip all the pieces together, allows you to do half a dozen or so core jobs of the state. It gives your property rights, it gives you identity registers, it gives you the possibility of taxation, it gives you electoral democracy, and a few other features like this. And you can imagine this is basically being a website, that you can log into with a secure ID token that is either biometric or tied to a biometric. and then once you’ve asserted that you are a citizen, you get to interact with the processes. Here’s my bank account, i’ve made theese transactions, i owe this much in taxes (it’s been automatically deducted), here are the bills that are currently being voted on, here are the people i have asked to represent me on this issues, theese are the decisions that they’ve made and they’re up for my approval. This is a patch of land that i own, on it there is a house, here’s all the information about the people that are providing utilities to that house and the legal commitements that they have to meet in exchange for my payments. And you can imagine a web interface that manage all of that stuff. That only works if your legal system is small, clean, simple and rational. You can’t take 70 000 pages of US tax code, put it into website that ordinary user can understand. It might even only work inside refugee camps and similiar crisis areas where the majority of complexity has been washed out of society by disruption so you’re kind of rebuilding from scratch and you just need something to get you through the first few years as time passes, case law get filled up and those systems become less effective. So what you get out of this, is the idea that in the event that you’ve got a failed state, you come with a bunch of smartphones, and a bunch of computers, and a bunch of networking gear, and everybody gets a website that performs the function that you used to go to the state for. “Ooh, that’s a bit interesting” and then you think, well: “Hmm, okay now we got block chains, it’s not a website anymore, it’s a distributed application” “You could potentially run kind of state-like entities on something like ethereum” and yeah, you totally could. So why would you want to do this? The answer is: the same way of governing refugee camps, is as if they were micro-states. Self-government, participatory democracy, participatory budgeting, proper identity databases, proper health-care, medical systems and all the rest of theese things, collective budgeting and collective bargaining. And all of the little enclaves where we’ve got a break-down of external governance where people want to be able to treat each other decently, but don’t have the machinery, could run on theese kind of systems. Anytime you’re under-governed you set up a system, everybody votes and everybody cooperates inside those systems, and what you get is the re-emergence of local control where central government has failed. And i think would se huge use of that systems in the slums, we’d se huge use of that in the refugee camps, war-zones, anywhere there’s so much systemic disruption where you need software to take over from the government just to keep the basic functions going for long enough that you can set up basic social services again. And i think the world is filled with that, i think there are hundreds of millions people or more that are systemically unable to acces reasonable quality state services because of state failure, because of corruption or because they’re so poor that they’re not putting anything into state so the state just ignores them or tries to treat them like wildlife. State-in-a-box is a way of allowing the citizens to patch the cracks where the conventional western-state nation state is failing to provide services.

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58 thoughts on “Ulterior States [IamSatoshi Documentary]

  1. I sure wish documentary makers would consider the hearing impaired when adding music to their stories. So hard to pay attention to what is being said with all that background noise. Some stories need musical embellishment to get the point across; this story – not so much.

  2. fascinating documentary – a must watch. so many excellent contributions its hard to know where to start
    Well done Guys
    Together we can build this thing

  3. +ChangeTip, send $0.50!
    Also on the same lines, this article is saying the same thing:

  4. I wish you had named the speakers in the film under their faces as they appeared. I recognized many, but not all.

    You jumped straight from Occupy to very technical explanations of bitcoin and its major vulnerability. For someone who knows a lot about bitcoin, that is still intelligible, but not for newbies. And the connection between the Assange-Occupy stuff and bitcoin, you might do well to make more clear and explicit.

    It's very interesting and I learned some things from it but it would benefit from a little more organization. Kudos and thanks.

  5. 16:55 LETS systems are Local Quantitative Easing that bypasses the banking system and gets right down to the people! 
    32:05 We the people could do our own money.. 
    37:00 Bitcoin allows people to make money happen by burning energy 
    Jct: Then it goes into the complexities of Bitcoin for security reasons? LETS can everything Bitcoin can. Funny how LETS bank accounts are open for inspection and all the security and complexity of Bitcoin involve hiding transactions for speculation. 
    Bitcoin has all the benefits of LETS except all the unnecessary security and being based on your computer burning energy rather than your delivering energy to another who now owes you. Great exchange mechanism, lousy medium. 
    They talk of thousands of different currencies… I hope not, one global one is best and easiest.

  6. Who is the guy speaking to using Bitcoin in failed nation states, i.e. refugee camps and so on at the end.  How do I get in touch with him to discuss this in a real world setting?  Anyone know?

  7. +Satoshi Pollen have $2 on me! +ChangeTip for illuminating how society without state is emerging out of the bitcoin revolution

  8. Nice Documentary. https://twitter.com/HelpcoinDE join the unique link from bitcoin to mainstream. Follow Helpcoin.

  9. Bitcoin will never be a form of government. Monarchy is still better because even if there is blockchain voting, there will still ultimately be one person in charge of posing and framing which issues to vote on.

  10. What happens to Bitcoin when the electric goes out or they close down the internet or censor certain sites? Bitcoin is inherently vulnerable to the machinations of the government, financial or judicial or administrative. Correct me if I'm wrong please!

  11. BRILLIANT IDEAS AT WORK HERE! ANY way to offset criminal banksters extortion is a great idea. While one doesn't need to understand all the logistics of Bitcoin, the system and idea is literally REVOLUTIONARY. The ONLY problem I foresee Bitcoin having is like any other form of money in…what happens to it when the lights go out for people and sheeple to access their accounts? ATMs and all other networks wouldn't work and Bitcoin would also require at least SOME electricity to operate right? It would certainly be a better place to have your money when the inevitable, future "bank holiday" occurs when the dollar COLLAPSES. GREAT VIDEO

  12. Awesome piece. The parts are intuitively sown together and gives a really flowing sensation. Keep up the good work looking forward for your next creation!

    @Satoshi Pollen have a beer on me! @ChangeTip

  13. Great to see the project finally… Well done mate. I agree superimposed titles/names of speakers would be a great addition, because the video should ideally be educational and accessible to the widest possible audience.

  14. 17:00 LETSystems and local currencies are local quantitative easing that bypass the banking system and gets right down to the people. 
    Jct: Imagine how the guy who engineered the LETSystems that get the quantitative easing right down to the people must feel when he hears this kind of accolade coming out about his 30-year-old software?

  15. At the entd of this he talked about state sevices, not 100% sure what he ment by services, but I'm 110% sure no human benifits from state services.. The state can only issue death, not life… The more freedom and less state a society has, the better off its people will be…

  16. Nice piece – I wish the focus was more on the distributed ledger technology and less on cryptocurrency – Bitcoin enables the transfer of value with application of bitcoin 2.0 and 3.0 technology e.g., smart contracts, records and registry.

  17. Nice documentary on the future but nothing about acquisition of it nor a link. One would imagine that concept would have some productive and positive affects.
    Bitcoin 101. It would appear that of all people you all would understand that not everyone is wired the same. Wired = Meaning the minds of people.
    It is said that Bitcoin is a way out, without a road map it is worth nothing. How can you get out of a maze without trial and error or a road map? Without a legend you would not know which way was north south east or Bitcoin.

    Whether You Love It or Hate It, You’re Missing What Really Matters About Bitcoin

    What the question actually should be Why are they missing what really matters?
    Because no one has really actually explained it and showed the procedures of handling it to the general public. Now you have your answer
    If they do not UNDERSTAND it what difference does it make. NONE.

    When you watch a documentary like this one can imagine starting reading a book or a MANUAL OF PROCEDURES OF ACQUIRING and USING BITCOINS on chapter 10 which only contains that chapter in the book and the rest of it is missing, without a link to the table of contents of the book in chapter 10.


    It reminds me of times when you work with the most experienced people in a field or new technology and they cannot figure out why the problem has not been resolved.
    Then one tells them did you check this and this which is the foreword of any book or simple diagnosis to a problem, we have given it a name and called it the missing link and that link is STEP 1. Highly skilled people in my filed always think they are to well educated to do the basic diagnosis charts before attempting to resolve a problem. You keep calling it a platform I call it a Trouble code tree. One branch leads to another and at each end of a branch you have reached a dead end or the solutions. Without the trunk you do not get to the branches being its first branch is 500 feet in the air.

    It is the PATH to the first branch OR otherwise known as the PATH TO PURCHASE YOUR FIRST BITCOIN AND THE KNOWLEDGE THEREOF.

  18. So the idea here is to have a third party keep a copy of all my transactions? But what if I buy masturbatory lube? Almost as bad as the NSA having my dick pics. Which they probably already do.

  19. Great documentary shame about the fucking sounds in the background and that horrible fucking beeping noise that starts at 17:00, I kept pausing the vid thinking one of my miners was down 🙁

  20. I am a noob to bit coin, at first I thought it was just some stupid new form of payment to make selling my pretty little ass more difficult, yah thanks back page, but once I started reading about it and learning about it, I found that with the right hardware and a couple pcs it may be the key to not selling my ass anymore.

  21. Does anyone know who the guy talking at around 12:20 is ? He's talking about the creation of money. The listing of features at the end has Vinay Gupta following Assange, but this isn't him. If anyone could steer me in the right direction that would be great.

  22. He's right. I'm on the Far left and hate the banks. I don't even know how to explain it. Their business model can't compete with Credit unions on any of the Merits that actually count for anything other than ubiquity. The only thing BOA for instance has to offer me is that they have ATMS God damn EVERYWHERE. But other than that the Interest rates offered by the Credit union are better wither it be to keep money inside them or it be to take a loan out FROM them and they give back more to the local communities than they do to Wall Street Investors which is always a reason to bank inside them YOU'RE WELCOME PORTLAND.

    I use Bitcoin myself too because if I understand the economic argument it could in theory be not only a deflationary economy but CAUSE deflation in the main economy and also because the Dollar. well. Say what you will about federal reserve notes, the greenback, whatever but there's no limited supply of them at all and it's pretty clear the government intends to keep on creating them forever.

    And that's what makes cryptocurrency kind of interesting. A Currency that artifically keeps people employed by continuously allowing the government to erode it's value. Now I understand that inflation is a side effect of high employment levels and all of that but a side effect of that but Bitcoin represents this kind of Side door that we can Exit out of the main economy with and exchange currency for MONEY that hopefully serves as a store of value.

    and a Store of Value is a powerful concept because essentially the whole rest of the economy sustains itself off of Eroding value of the dollar. But then where is the incentive to innovate?

  23. This is really getting it too what with Paypal often shutting down people's donations to causes online that they appreciate because they get spooked potentially that their's fraud like what happened to Something Awful or all kinds of internet forums when they just tried to do charitable crowdfunding. Bitcoin is a One way transaction process that isn't reversible and from one perspective this is a weakness but from another it means that there's no central authority to say NO YOU CAN'T DONATE TO THAT, you can't do that! or we're concerned fraud might have been involved and need to do bookkeeping and put you through an EXTREMELY bureaucratic process to receive your funds.

  24. How many bitcoin to creative-commons this film?
    @33:00 actually,, and i wish i could remember who really looked at it, but while merkle trees and proof of work were around before satoshi, there was 3-4 other steps towards using them together in a bitcoiny way that i thought it was andrew miller but may have been someone else wrote up at some point. Maybe someone else can remember where they saw this (it's on /r/bitcoin probably somewhere). But it wasn't just a simple 'we could have done this 14 years ago', no, bitcoin-2008 was going to be invented no earlier than about 2004-6, just in time for the financial crisis anyway.

  25. @3:45 "the goal is not to save the world, cause some people do not want to be saved. But we need to find a way for those who want" Amir Taaki, Cody Wilson (the one after Amir) – they are one of the die hard crypto-anarchists and they really put to work (code) and making the world better

  26. Awesome doc! Would love to see more like it, and also see some of the ideas and systems explored further: a tool for significant change won't hit its stride without creative, passionate application 😉



  28. PoW is a way of life (thermodynamic proof with network effect). Every full-node is a validator and therefore a vote on the Bitcoin system. Stay away from all other coins because they are made to give you heavy bags and keep you out of Bitcoin. Take heed!

  29. a film with a huge impact, I am glad that I had the chance to watch it. Thank you very much for the production, I willrecomend it to others 👍🏻👌

  30. I hate te end conclusion and it scared the shit out of me. Imagine you commit no crime but the government does not like what you are doing so they turn you off. Nope not for me.

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