The Problem with Techno-Libertarian Think


put it he’s amazing to see what these these at
some of these tech tech that people think book is is making a company like to them
like creating application repressed dot the
rover photo and selling it that they spoke for a billion dollars and look
you’ve accomplished that some are not going to say well i’m not going to
denigrate good for them high don’t care if you
make the pet rock and you were you know that’s not a one-time and know
what the project allen unhappy that that guide made
overall you know i’m sure the stories like began a develop the pet rock and some
companies still holds profits but uh… i i have no i don’t begrudge them
at all it is that when you go around and
denmark are nanc i lied i had put in fifteen hours
yesterday agonies forty uh… there’s no doubt my mind somebody who’s
a driving a train three eight nine hours a day we trade uh… the opportunities you’ve
admiral himself i’ll people silicon valley were very mindful of the context of success
properly progressive politics but if there’s a big problem there in terms of the delusions of what it is
only overall context not varma yes and uh… and i think what makes you all
little bit more dangerous potentially is that they’re isn’t there still a little
bit of a cultural halo around silicon valley you don’t have her on wall street
as an example right pushes it too really believe its own pianist at a
certain way happened i was on its reflected here absolutely the i mean aside from this being in a
sort of like that disease that mit romney habits where he really believes that he had
been born uh… latino he would’ve been president now the only thing that was as holding
them back besides not being conscious of all the
advantages that they have had and i’m sure there’s some people would they didn’t have advantages side not being conscious of the lock that they at or the disadvantage is that other people bolo this sort of like neutral baseline you know i mean this gets back to even
when those uh… did the castro brothers spoke at uh… at the d_n_c_ which i also found reprehensible this notion of lake anybody can do it here let me tell you
the story of my family well that’s great you’re really lucky that your
grandmother was such havea often nominal often on all and unique
person but you know what the fact the matter is is that human beings by and large or not phenomenal people they don’t always have the best of luck they also don’t necessarily have the
capacities who uh… to you know not starve in the desert as they’re
crossing the border or they don’t have the capacities to figure
out you-know-who math back in and so i can become coder that’s just the reality of the human
condition that’s not going to change and then the question as to be does that
mean that those dove vast majority of people who are not spectacularly talented don’t have all right to live the angle i a flow of dignity don’t have a right tab health care don’t have the a right to uh… to live the comfortable middle-class existence and then the other irony is is a sort of
like will use unions don’t know how to work how was he the quote to the n_p_r_ that
sarah laces made about people that she sees in her universe okay who have managed to bargain for a certain amount of money added job at a company that they clearly don’t deserve i mean that’s the implication you’re
right there just using their bargaining power and their leverage high-t_ their labor to get a better gimp a than they should
get where she where she complaining about
the individuals who do that all around her and you know i don’t care how much time
she spends on a p_r_ job i can make it very good argument but the social utility of that p_r_ job
is far less then the guy who’s driving my kid in a
bus or responsible for my family on a subway had also this whole notion of like how
many hours you put it i mean like look i can say you know that night annual obviously
can’t say like hey you know last night when i was like you know reading uh… huffington post on my phone that is worked here at right like i’m
looking for stories of calling information share alike and i’d have to trail around and shirt
going out the parties as part of her job and that’s exactly the point when you
get these numbers throughout much our work sixteen hours a day like uses like
okay let’s really assess what your actually doing it yes and
that’s great you know there are some to billboard worker reading the news going
to parties party you work again being reeled out what your ally and i
also would like to see those hours expanded overseas sixty five years because yeah those bart workers are going to be
working a lot longer in sheets and when they’re working
they’re working i mean dot that’s a high performance high-pressure job in fact indeed the

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82 thoughts on “The Problem with Techno-Libertarian Think

  1. I want to praise this video especially because generally I do not like the programs without Sam and I do not like all the ones with Sam as host. But I agree with the positions proffered here and also found the interaction am

  2. Isn't Stefan Molyneux one of those kinds of people? IIRC Sam during your POLIPOP debate with him, he was talking about how Technology would allow humanity to move away from Gov't institutions.

  3. Smart, concise, right on point. Clips like this is why I like Seder. You've passed of Cenk as my favorite.

  4. Libertarians are the worst. How can you have a rational discussion with someone who doesn't recognize reality.

  5. All those people on $10 an hour or less should not turn up to work for a month, then you will find out just how important those jobs and people are. If all the people who earn over $5 million a year didn't turn up to work for a month, I doubt you would notice a difference.

  6. I hate people that think the number of hours of work you do is something to be proud of. What about the number of lives you are improving?

    If you tell me you spent 15 hours working yesterday, I want to know how much you enjoyed it too. "Oh I spent 120 hours last week doing something I enjoy, but now I'm going to pretend I didn't enjoy it so I sound better than those trash men that 'only' work 40." I've done 100+ hour weeks working on video games, but I love it so I don't fucking *brag*.

  7. The creator of 'An Inconvenient Truth' made a movie called 'Waiting for Superman' that show how education unions destroyed public education in the US.
    If unions were a positive force, then why do union officials employ non-unionized assistants, and senior staff?
    Unions pushed auto-worker wages in Detroit to $55/hr on average (acc to NY Times) and made it impossible for them to survive without Govenrment handouts.

  8. The problem is reality doesn't wok that way. Some people by no fault of their own have no choice to rely on government assistance because of a disability or mental disorder. What's the libertarian answer? Let them die.

  9. Yes, reform is needed, but PARENTS should be the key decision makers, not unions/politicians.
    A school voucher system puts control in the hands of parents, and is already working well in many countries:
    wiki/School_voucher

  10. Whatever you decide is best for your kids. If you don't like it, you can take your voucher and send your kids elsewhere.
    I studied both creation & evolution, and somehow I turned out thinking that central Governments shouldn't dictate these issues to parents. Maybe I'm a freak.

  11. You must have missed the news – hasn't worked out so well in Sweden, in fact there is talk of taking the schools over and making them public again.

  12. There's problems everywhere, but I haven't seen any evidence that the privately run schools there are to blame in Sweden.
    If they were, the parents can opt to send their kids to a public school. That's the whole point of it.
    Are you able to point me to a resource that explains the problem there in detail?

  13. There's nothing to show that the private schools are at fault here, and even if they were – the parents have the CHOICE to send them to a public school instead.
    BTW Norway suffered the same decline without school vouchers.

  14. 'Obama apologists" is just one of those dumbass things people say to be dismissive.

    Actually, this show was one of the very few to take very hard swings at Obama BEFORE the election — Andy Kindler the Obamabot, Glenn Ford "the more effective evil," etc.

  15. Average wages tend to skew high because of high upper end wages.
    The median wage is a better measure of the wage of a typical worker. If the median was 55/hr that would be totally unacceptable and, from what I remember, the median was in the 30s which is still very high for a laborer but not as eye-popping as 55

  16. What gets me about the people claiming to be Ayn Rand disciples is that most don't even have a grasp on the nuances of her philosophy. She heralded the makers and the artists but didn't support financiers or politician-CEOs. Jamie Dimon, as smart as he may be, would still be considered a villain in "Atlas Shrugged"

  17. Even at $30/hour, that was 4 times the min wage for an entry level job which is very high.
    Think about it. Making auto-workers more expensive makes cars more expensive. The lower & middle class rely on cars to commute. You're pushing up everyone's cost of living in order to keep union workers employed.
    BTW, GM spent more on employee healthcare plans than on STEEL.

  18. Garbage men are far more important than PR or fucking stock brokers…fuck bitches, these hard working men shouldn't be picking your garbage, when all your doing is sitting on your ass and trying to scam society without adding any productive capacity to it..thats leeching

  19. There is an alternative hypothesis: Manufacturing jobs have, historically, been better paying than retail or service jobs. Real wage depression over the last 30 years has been illustrated in vast detail. Have you considered that the UAW is one of the few groups that has been able to stave off real wage depression?
    This would mean that, in general, manufacturing wages should be double what they are currently but in other industries, those wages have "trickled up".

  20. ?? You are the first person…ever…to call me a libertarian. I cited Rand's philosophies because most people that spout her "free-market" BS don't even know the principles that she's drawing from and further pervert the philosophy to (Cartman voice) I can do what I want!

  21. What's the point of earning lots of money if the stuff you buy keeps costing more?
    This doesn't make sense.

  22. The UAW can keep wages higher by being productive, not by forcing taxpayers to chip in for their mismanagement.
    And wages don't need to be higher, the rising cost of living & the limited availability of jobs are what's that's hurting people.
    Regulations, building restrictions, state/federal/local taxes are making higher wages worth less. For comparison, the cost of living in many cities in Texas is around HALF what it is in California on average.

  23. You do bring up a serious problem with unions nowadays. The concept of a union is that it represents the workers of a company or trade so that there's better communication and negotiation with employers. That seems to be going away, with union elections become less frequent and membership drives as more of the focus. The result of unions is businesses and industries becoming more aware of workers' needs because of the FEAR of unionization, not the unions themselves.

  24. Was tried in the 70s, caused shortages and eventually even higher prices as many suppliers went out of business.
    Chavez tried the same for a while before croaking, again caused shortages. Those fools don't even have enough toilet paper there now.

  25. Unions have an uncanny ability to hinder economic progress with ludicrous salary demands(relative to an individual's productivity) and insane "specialization". They can't walk and chew gum at the same time. Furthermore compulsory union membership is anti-competitive and un-American.

  26. The cost of living in California is so high because people want to live there. The weather is incredible and the eye candy is plentiful.
    There's an error in your logic and that is that wages and productivity have nothing to do with one another.
    My wage is set before the company sees my productivity.
    Example:I design device A that makes it to market. That device makes tons of money for the company. If I produce no new devices then I do not partake in the money made from device A.

  27. Yea and pigs will fly and mokeys will fly outta my butt. Your govment is sold and you took it …fuck you can't change shit can you?

  28. And I cannot fathom why you would be against building regulation. I have seen fly-by-night building operations and none would hesitate to build a home guaranteed not to last 10 years if they could make a hefty profit from it. We underestimate the number of hazardous materials we come into contact with. And how regulations ensure that a standard of quality is maintained. No one that works on the ground floor in manufacturing would advocate eliminating regulations. Even Libertarians.

  29. Not against regulations, just against excessive ones that cripple the market and force up prices.
    There's no shortage of land in California, and they can always build upwards in sought after areas. They had a price crash there, but still not enough affordable rentals where the jobs are.
    They have terrible restrictions on businesses, takewawy taxes, excessive employment rules that make it very hard to do business there.
    See in detail: /watch?v=a8bQDqe2NPo

  30. You should check out my video series on Libertarians. In some of my videos, I take Libertarians behind a proverbial shed and beat them with a water hose. Libertarians are the low-hanging fruit on the Right's crazy tree.

  31. Well there are plenty of tech startups that did not, but most of those individuals are actually more democrat than libertarian.

    As someone who is currently working towards a startup that's just now gettings some traction i can say, I am not a libertarian, and most tech people are moving away from libertarian ideas.

    Mainly cause we are hipsters who don't want it cause it's "cool" now haha joke…

  32. You actually explained it quite well. I would grant exceptions for libertarians who are outside of the United States as far as blindly following tea party Koch ideals.

    Some of those people just honestly have their ideas from classical economic theories. But by in large you are right on.

  33. well libertarians in norse countries are not for abolishing all help and aid to the poor either. Many of them are seeking a de-regulation over crop industries and various other small things.

    Find Joepie on twitter, it's a moderate form of libertarians.

    But most Murikan libertarians are crackpots. "Lets get rid of the organizations in charge of keeping children safe from lead poisoning"

  34. True in most cases, but this isn't wages. It's just healthcare benefits on top of wages.
    You would think a car manufacturer would spend more on steel that healthcare.

  35. Yeah, so when i was speaking about libertarians I also was thinking about European Libertarians who would honestly be considered democrats here in Murika'!

    The are the far right over there. Pretty much, anyone who says "Hey, lets put citizen concerns above business interests" is to the far left of Obama.

    Citizens United vs FEC, and his candid support of the outcome proves that.

  36. So there are two ways to address this. First is to wonder if the amount GM spends in Steel is all that much. I mean most car bodies are now carbon fiber exterior and you only need steel frames and engines. Not to mention, they are outsourcing engine parts to other companies to make pistons ect. Is that counted as steel in their budget?

  37. Second way to address it, is to read their whole report to the House Financial Services Committee.

    It was CEO Rick Wagoner, and when asked about the subject he said that a national health care program would put GM in better competition with China and Japan who already use those services.

    So fine, lets follow what GM is ACTUALLY asking for and do a national health care program.

  38. Define "middle class existence." Everyone has a right to it? Everyone has a right to a car, cable tv, tons of apple products and really nice vacations? I know a lot gets said as this is a radio show, but certainly not everyone has a right to be in the middle class.

  39. What would you define as the thing that gives a person the "right" to a middle class existence besides money. By your logic the only people who have a right to nicer things in life, or at least a life beyond desperate near destitute living in jobs that barely pay enough to survive is the amount of money a person was able to collect. So by your logic you really do value the life and happiness of a wealthy person more than a poor person.

  40. When unions first started out they had a great message. "Give workers a say in the workplace". Now it seems some union groups affiliate themselves with mobsters, intimidate their political enemies or independent workers, and used as more of a political tool rather than focusing on real worker rights issues. Right to Work in my opinion is a good law, except I believe it would be more fair if they made workers who do not want to join a union not pay union dues. Vice Versa.

  41. I have a problem with the word "right" to some good or service in general. I believe it is government's responsibility to aid the poorest among us. It's one thing to want a reasonable safety net, but it is another thing when you say people have an absolute right to food, healthcare, clothing, etc. If you want to give that absolute right to everything, it means you must equalize people to the level of those who produce, which socialism. If you actually follow this out in practice, it's a failure.

  42. The accusation was that they were "Obama apologists." This was one of the few outlets on the left that would criticize Obama at all before the election, and they spent plenty of time pointing out how fucked it was that voting for him was, for some, the best strategic option.

    Seriously, why don't you direct your energy toward getting worthier candidates to run on the right, rather than quibbling over how left the lefties should be? Like, clean up your own house.

  43. See, here's why you're not being taken seriously. Wh is my "clown in chief"? WTF are you even talking about? Is that an assumption that I voted Obama? Why do right wingers insist on talking to Clint Eastwood's chair?

  44. Where do you draw the line though? If you really believe that the ultra rich deserve all the power an influence they've been able to obtain, but I know "deserves ain't got nothing to do with it"….You're argument is if we draw the line towards the left it will lead to socialism, something you see as a failure which I would argue is wrong to begin with but if we never draw a line going the other way then the public discourse will eventually shift to such an extreme that idea of letting a man

  45. ………..(continue) .die of thirst in the desert when there is another man standing next to him who has plenty of water because it would considered more immoral to force the man to share his water or for the man to steal some water to survive than to let the other man die because he has no right to any of the other man's water.

  46. I don't get how broad your brush is, in terms of who's more Chomsky-ish and who's an Obamabot. This show is one of the more courageous in terms of calling the emperor naked, which was a huge faux pas pre-election. I left one site that I had been blogging on because I'm not even going to taste the Kool-aid. So when you say progressives aren't passionately anti-Obama, you're making that shit up. Seder's take on it was basically the same as Chomsky's: vote Obama if you're in a swing state.

  47. Also, let's be clear: I am in a swing state and still didn't vote Obama. If the Democrats were worth a rat's ass we wouldn't be having Moral Monday here in NC, or at least we'd have some firepower. They didn't give a fuck about us, They didn't do a damned thing to keep the Republicans from sweeping us with PAC money. I'm not confused. And I'm glad I voted for Jill Stein in a purple state.

  48. You should help him, and I am in favor of government providing a safety net, but leftists go much further. Some believe people have a right to a free college, absolute free/unlimited healthcare, free transportation, free phones, etc. I wish everyone could get everything they want, but we must realize the reality that we live in a world of scarce resources. When you give people an absolute right to free 8 years in college, you waste resources. Unfortunately I'm out of space, but hope u understand

  49. You have delusions that the public system is less wasteful than the private system. believe it or not but the post office and social security are some of the most streamlined systems in existence with very low costs compared to the private sector for administrative costs. Most other industrialized countries besides the united states believe higher education be free or highly subsidized because they believe it's better for a countries strength to have citizens that are educated not a nation full

  50. (continued)….of mouth breathing idiots that are only smart enough to work as ditch diggers and not realize how badly they are being fucked over, of course the right would have us dismantle public education as well. Maybe people in Europe don't care as much if their taxes are higher because they actually see something for their tax dollars besides never ending wars and hundred million dollar missiles that blow up sand….anyways..a capitalist system is only "efficient" in making money, it could

  51. If beer/porn makes them happy, so be it, it does not adversely effect our lives. Military industrial complex taxes us to pay for a bloated military that should be cut in half, that's a perfect example of big government wasting resources. Leftists force people to waste billions on things(i.e. electric cars/subsidize solar panels) that are not ready yet, and do not cut enough CO2 to make a dent in the CO2 needed to be cut for global warming. And yea, right wingers subsidize oil. You're all guilty!

  52. Unless you're 65+, you've been screwed by social security. See study done by the LIBERAL urban institute, you will get less out of it than you paid in taxes over you life. Even if private, safe corporate bonds have higher admin costs, but give better returns, are they less efficient? Admin costs IS NOT a measure of efficiency by itself. Also the post office lost 15.9 billion last year, subtract the 5 they had to pay for the overfunded pension, its still nearly 12 billion. But that's efficient?

  53. …(continued)…For Euro…Actually some of the countries in europe are arguably free-er economically (definitely swiss, maybe fins/swedes). In switzerland they have a smaller public sector, and in all three of those countries, they have a cleaner regulatory code. The regs have gotten so over the top now, we had the SOCIALIST (Stew Alexander) candidate last election saying we have too much regulation. US is no laissez faire economy by any stretch. Hong Kong, even Singapore are decent models.

  54. There is yet another 2 takes. If indeed they work twice as hard they should ONLY get twice the wage – CEOS earn HUNDREDS of times their workers. And in capitalism RISK is also supposed to be rewarded. CEOs are risking none of their own money – where as say roofers, lumberjacks, garbage men, fishermen work WAY harder than the average CEO – but they also do some of THE most dangerous jobs – they are risking their lives which DWARFS financial risks – queue dissembling by libertarian pricks…

  55. You're so fucking stupid. The over funded pension fund? You do know this was a complete fuck job the republicans created by requiring the post office to have pension funding for an astounding 75 years into the future, something no public or private entity would ever try to plan for that far in the future, it was deliberately done to make a rock solid institution like the post office look like a "big government boondoggle" If you lifted the tax cap on social security earnings it would be rock

  56. rock solid also…..you pay no more AT ALL in taxes if you earn 250,000 dollars a year or if you're a multi billionare. Please know what you're fucking talking about before opening your fucking mouth.

  57. Did you even read what I wrote? Like I said, the over-funding of the pension excuse only accounts for $5 billion, leaving us with about 12 billion is losses for USPS. With or without that law, its still way in the red despite having a national monopoly. Also, I did not mention the underfunded part of social security, I said you get less benefits than you paid in regardless of the funding. Do you understand that?! Also, raising the cap makes SS a welfare system, NOT a self-funded system….

  58. (CONTINUED).Social Security was constructed by FDR NOT to be a welfare system, but a retirement insurance system that paid you benefits based on what you paid in. Now that people earning over 113K will be paying for other people', it becomes welfare. If you concede Social Security is no longer self sustaining and simply welfare, lets just begin by means testing it and create a welfare system to the poor elderly,and let the young opt out, who will get much less out of SS even if you bust the cap.

  59. If they vote for Trump, they deserve to have their jobs shipped to Mexico and abroad. When they betray liberal democracy and support Trump, they are slitting their own throats. Fuck em. Long live those who defend civil liberties.

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