Gemtech SUES Smith & Wesson and more SHOT Show Drama! – TGC News


This week on TGC News, SHOT Show hits and
misses, Gemtech sues Smith & Wesson And the drama llama comes
to town! Welcome back everyone, my name is Jon Patton
and you are watching TGC News. We’re playing catch up this week because we
were away for SHOT show and man there is a lot of ground to cover. If you haven’t seen our coverage, check out
the playlist linked in the description. First up this week, things we missed at SHOT. It was an interesting year. Attendance was WAY down, most likely due to
the industry self correction AND the NSSF doing a better job of vetting attendees. However, even with the drop in attendance,
nearly EVERY booth we visited said it was a great year for them. Maybe we are seeing the start of a trend? Either way, there were tons of new products
at the center of all this. 6.5 Creedmoor is EVERYWHERE. Every rifle manufacturer is working on a creedmoor. We also saw a ton of .224 Valkyrie rifles. Then you have the non-NFA type guns from every
manufacturer as well. Bolt guns from AR manufacturers, pistols from
AR manufacturers, clearly telling us how that market is doing haha. So what did we miss in our coverage? CZ brought out the Scorpion Micro, and its
tiny. Overall length when its collapsed is 16 inches. It features a 4 inch barrel and fake suppressor
and short rail and of course a PDW style pistol brace from SB Tactical. Other than that, it’s the same as other Scorpions. Neat idea on their part. MSRP on these will be about 1150. One of the other things we didn’t get a chance
to cover was the new Retro line from Brownells, they’ve been teasing and expanding this line
over the last year or so but this year at SHOT they showed off the new retro AR10 called
the BRN-10 WITH the top side charging handle like the original armalite rifles from the
inception of the AR. Such a cool concept and the execution, on
the surface at least, looks incredible. The 20” barrel is standard on both the A
and B versions with the A being a fluted heavier version with an open flash hider and the B
having a lighter profile barrel and closed prong flash hider. Both are on pre-order for 1699 for the A and
1599 for the B version. Certainly not the cheapest out there but if
they run and you’re into historical type rifles, this could be an affordable way to get a hold
of something classic. Speaking of classic, one of America’s quintessential
lever action makers seems to be paying attention. Marlin expanded their pistol caliber 1894
lineup this year and the highlight of that was the CST. The long and short of it is that this is a
threaded .357 magnum/38 special lever gun from one of the big dogs. This matters for a couple of reasons. The most obvious is that another big company
has recognized that people want this sort of product. Looking deeper, this is a clear sign of them
trying to capture back some of the market they’ve lost to companies that move faster. Marlin is owned by Freedom group, who also
owns companies like Remington, DPMS, Bushmaster and silencer manufacturer AAC. We all know that the silencer industry has
suffered since the inception of ATF 41F so they are definitely trying to get their core
customer base to support their other brands. It makes sense. However, being that Freedom Group ruins everything,
I am not holding my breath on the QC of these rifles. Either way, for an MSRP of 1154, they won’t
exactly be flying off of dealer shelves. And rounding us out, last year at SHOT we
gave the Best Accessory award to Yankee Hill Machine for their Turbo silencer. It was a 500 dollar 5.56 can with solid performance. Well they’ve done that again with the new
Resonator. Its essentially the 30 caliber version of
the Turbo and comes in at an MSRP of 630 bucks. One of the biggest complaints that I saw in
the comments on our SHOT videos was the pricing on so many things. People want to be able to buy these cool new
trinkets that hit the market and often times they are priced out of the average joes range. YHM has done us proud again with the Resonator. What do you guys think? I want to hear about your favorite product
from SHOT this year in the comments below. And standing up to giants news, THE STRUGGLE
BUS IS BACK! We reported not that long ago that silencer
manufacturer Gemtech was acquired by the big blue, Smith & wesson for 10 million dollars. Well as it turns out, that relationship has
gone a bit sour before it really got started. According to a lawsuit filed January 24th,
yep, during SHOT show, S&W has failed to deliver the money they owe for the deal. The suit goes into far more detail of course
but essentially Gemtech has only been paid a little more than half of the money owed. THAT is very interesting. I also know that people have been losing their
jobs at Gemtech during this mess. Boys and girls this will not end well. I thought that it was a good thing to see
a strong company acquire a mainstay in the suppressor industry but apparently, much like
the downfall of AAC, that is bound to be the ruin of that company. I hope that I get proven wrong but only time
will tell. We will definitely be tracking this as time
goes on, and if you guys want a play by play from our resident 2A lawyer Adam after it’s
all settled, sound off in the comments. I know you guys want to hear about the dumbest
thing we saw at SHOT show and we decided to bring in the heavy hitter on drama to give
his opinion on the biggest mess at SHOT. Johnny, whats the word? Welp, Thanks Johnny. I’d love to hear the TGC audience opinion on that. You guys know where to post it. Our friendly fire questions are coming from
the TGC Facebook page this week. Les Ortiz asks what’s the new gun trend for
2018? In years past it was skeletonized or battle
worn everything. I think the trend this year will be either
non-NFA OR it will be look at our new precision rifle. Kind of toss up this early in the game but
the makings are there. Chuck Morgan asks, what is a firearms you
have always wanted but cannot justify because of price practicality or something similar? The Barrett M107A1. I want one bad but when they cost over 10
grand, thats hard to justify. Who knows, maybe i’ll find a smoking deal
on one someday. Jordan Toth asks, do you think self defense
insurance is important and what are the best options out there? At this point, based on sheer percentages,
I dont think its necessary for everyone out there to have it. However, it could be the thing that saves
your butt in the end. It’s tough to call. I’m in the same boat as you, wanting to know
the various pluses and minuses of the options out there. Hopefully in the next few months we can give
an accurate assessment but for now thats all i’ve got for you brother. And since tons of people asked, my favorite
thing at SHOT was a toss up between the full-auto BB gun because I would love to have one, and the super lightweight 22 from 2A armament. We did videos on both of them. The dumbest thing? That’s tough because I try not to zone in
on dumb stuff at SHOT. Maybe that spring loaded bayonet, that’s the
only dumb thing I can put my brain on right now. My question to you guys this week, it’s been
a hot topic lately in the TGC comment section, What do you think a silencer should cost and
what should it do for that money? This will be fun. Let me know your thoughts in the comments
below and if you want your question answered here on the show, you can send that to me
over on theguncollective.com. And that is it for this week’s show, if you
enjoyed the show, hit that like button and share it with your friends, that is a huge
help. If you didn’t let us know why down in the
comment section below and if you haven’t please get subscribed you won’t want to miss a single
episode and as always, thank you all for watching, we’ll see
you soon!

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100 thoughts on “Gemtech SUES Smith & Wesson and more SHOT Show Drama! – TGC News

  1. Great job and post. As far as a price on suppression, look how much material goes into an AR15. (at or below 9.5 lbs) I can buy one for around $400.00, on the other hand, suppressors use very little material, and cost 1/3 more. + the $200.00 tax. just want one for my 10/22 Ruger

  2. "Reporting live from two days ago"… LOL. A silencer should cost no more than $13.48 and should double as a back scratcher or foot massage.

  3. Could the adult entertainment expo happening caused the drop in attendance. Guns vs porn. Rifles vs beautiful scantily clad women. Damn tough choice. Or you could have just gone to the concrete expo if you want to go crazy

  4. Gun bunnies? Who cares those girls make money. And why is a pretty girl who makes an effort to look pretty (working out and such) a bad thing.

  5. Silencer's should be no more than $100 to $150! If you're gonna pay over $600 for a silencer, which if you do, you;'re a fucking Moron, and then another $200 for that ridiculous fucking tax stamp, again, you're a fucking Moron!! A silencer is known to cause more fouling of guns than anything else. Until the NFA is completely abolished, not interested in anything like that. Their rules are as antiquated as the time frame from which they originated!!!

  6. Well a decent ar is around 500/600 dollars and there is no way suppressor takes that much machine time so im saying to hell with the tax stamp wich is another way for the government to make money and sell them like a firearm we already have the background check.250 dollars at most is all there worth and that should be for a good one. jmo tho sorry for the rant!!

  7. They're still charging Obama era prices and wondering why they gotta file for bankruptcy. People aren't scared so they aren't wasting money. They're being strategic with their purchases and only buying needs.

    Here's the deal. I'm 25 years old with a young family to protect. I feel I need a pistol, rifle, and shotgun. What am I gonna get? A $2500 Wilson combat, $3000 Noveske, and a $1000 Benelli? No, I'm gonna get a $500 Glock, $600 DPMS, and a $300 Mossberg. The top is wants, the bottom is need. When you live on people's wants, your gonna struggle from time to time. Not to say amy of the companies mentioned are good/bad strugglin or not. They're just who popped in my head for this example. The point is flooding the market, not being able to adjust for demand fluctuations and not realizing the type of business you're in.

  8. I swear this is a generational thing. I’m 33. When I was a kid the firearm manufacturers and community as a whole were more professional and HONEST. I have no clue when this all changed. But it had to be within the last decade and a half. Seriously. Why is the firearm community eating itself? And these “cute” female shooters, who wear shorts nearly short enough to see the Cunt hairs peeking out the bottoms, just need to represent more modestly. No one cares if you can shoot, nor will you be respected, if all they’re thinking about is how flexible your legs are while crankin’ the shit outa you. Seriously. I’m almost done with the whole scene. Everyone is trying to reinvent the wheel…

  9. I want a S and W .500 with a stock. Just make a giant revolving rifle in that caliber. With a silencer. And rail gun on the bottom. With a bayonet. And Bluetooth.

  10. If suppressors were non NFA items, you could buy disposable ones made of plastic. Use them up like ammo, toss 'em, buy more… $29.95 each, retail.

  11. Typical fat shit, don't do gun news unless you know how to call the equipment by the right name. I had served for over 2 decades and still don't call a rifle a "gun", it's either a weapon system or call it by what it is. And unless you're from California, a suppressor is not a silencer. If you've shit anything else besides your mouth, even the most expensive suppressor do not silences the sonic boom from the bullet going through air, don't even bring up sub sonic munition, cause there's still sounds from explosive gas from burnt powder.

  12. A Supressor should do what they are doing right now, but our USA rules drive up the cost. If the laws were changed… and suppressors were just flat out legal, these prices would dramatically drop. It the exact same thing with The Hemp for medicinal purpose… the correlation is obvious. Lobbyist want to suppress it for the dealers to keep the price in high demand, and collect tax revenue. Hence, the people representing us, is against us for $$$$$

  13. I want them to be under $300 and reduce to less than 85 decibels. Of course I am also willing to pay more for one that goes even lower, or does not require sub sonic ammo to get the reduction. Another point is ease of cleaning and changing of baffles/wipes.

  14. I thought the correct term was "Suppressor" because silencer, well, implies no noise. I dont mind paying a few hundred dollars for a suppressor but going through the NFA process sucks and at this point exceeds my patience and trust

  15. The question regarding silencer cost is too broad. It would be dependent on caliber, materials, etc. I would love to enter the discussion but I would need a more specific question. Thank you for all your hard work.

  16. I've been looking at the concept of the Reformation and I've been thinking… I'm no gun or barrel expert by any means, but isn't there another way to stabilize a bullet without "rifling" the barrel (without needing a special projectile like FA wants to do)? What if instead of a single straight cut you had multiple straight cuts, but every X centimeters the cut stops and a new one starts Y degrees offset from the last?

  17. For the insurance…..please look at the USCCA (US Carry Conceal Association). Fantastic insurance and extremely economical. If you are put into a self defense situation, you are going to need this. I have been with them for the past 4 years…..outstanding organization!

  18. I think suppressor should cost around what high end electronic ear pro cost. Because in all honesty besides looking cool, that's really the main function, hearing conservation. Why buy a $600 can when I can pick up $100-$200 ear pro and not mess with gas pressures and tax stamps. Hopefully someday soon they will come off the nfa list and the prices will drop due to companies making their own because they don't have to wade through federal regulations for little to no return. The average shooter/gun owner can't afford $200 for no reason on top of what they just bought.

  19. I THINK THAT RESPONSIBLE PEOPLE LIKE YOURSELF SHOULD STOP REFERRING TO SUPPRESSORS AS SILENCERS. THEY DON'T MAKE A SHOT SILENT. THEY DO SUPPRESS THE SOUND. JUST A THOUGHT.

  20. Did SW/Gemtech structure an earn out as part of the deal. That's the only reason they wouldn't get paid through the flow of funds immediately following the close of the transaction

  21. I here to learn about the new products at shotshow 2018 and the worse products, and you waste my time with Booth Bunnies, how about the worse Firearm product.

  22. A suppressor should Cost between $500 and $600 and should have the features of: Easy to clean, Easy to repair with replaceable parts to last a lifetime

  23. @4:10 Remlin rifles are still failing. I'm sad for what they did to Marlin, and if Freedom Group is to blame, then so be it, but as gun owners (they call us consumers) we need to raise hell with them and effect some change. Lets start complaining about conglomerates taking over our favorite smaller companies and shitting on the quality just to make money off of the name.

  24. if the silencer cost half the price of the rifle and lasts just as long im all for it. NOJUNK 15.000 round silencers Ill spend if it comes with a life time warrenty. And wont abuse it just so it blows up in my face

  25. lol why would anyone ask a gun bunny a loaded question like that. she probably thought well i dont have guns so its ok if the government wants to take them away.
    And for any other gun bunnies , not that they visit gun related youtube channels , think of guns as mobile phones or hair straighteners when they ask if you would be ok with the government taking them away.

  26. Silencer
    1000$ – premium best of the best, top of the line materials
    800$ – middle of the road nothing too exotic material wise
    500$ – budget cans, plain Jane “older” designs

  27. A silencer should be under $50 and be able to reduce the voices of silly people like that Taran Tactical dippy gal down to ZERO Db, but of course if it could really do that, it would be priceless.

  28. People who complain about high msrp prices on new guns and accessories don't understand that the more the company sells, the cheaper they can sell it. Through streamlined manufacture or hitting a profit point. All that tooling didn't just magically appear. And they aren't even sure if they will sell. Anytime you see a newly released firearm which is a new model, not based on an existing one, and the price isn't even a little high you should be concerned where the production costs were saved to allow for a lower selling price.

  29. I think a decent, run of the mill, hearing safe at the shooters ear, 5.56 suppressor should retail for $300 and it shouldn’t be overly large but it doesn’t have to be the smallest/lightest thing ever either. Just a good basic, affordable, 5.56 can

  30. for any viewers, I'd look at ccwsafe.com . They offer a lot & will defend you with any weapon, not just firearms. rates vary & they often offer discounts. I'm a current member & feel its worth the $.

  31. So you all are surprised that hired models aren't gun enthusiasts?!? Sounds like everyone looking to hire "Booth babes" should have a 2A pledge of allegiance followed by a gun familiarity test. If not Lord forbid they have an opposing view at shot show. After all she's paid to stand there and look pretty not agree with your POV.

  32. suppressors should bring the noise down below 86db for $500.
    The first company that does that won't be able to make them fast enough..

  33. Sound suppressors should be in the $200-$600 range. The higher end being for premium materials and ultra lightweight. I can tell you from a production machinist stand point, there is no reason to justify the crazy, high prices of silencers other than taking advantage of a really shitty situation. The cases and baffles are not difficult nor time consuming to turn on modern CNC lathes. Just a thought….

  34. Without State meddling, competition would open up and prices would fall drastically. At the end of the day, it's just a muffler. I think suppressors would run $100-$500. Everything else is elitism and fiat inflation.

  35. So what about the stabilized ovoid in the thumbnail? ??!?!

    Great info,
    terrible memes and Will Ferrell clips.
    🔫👍🇺🇸

  36. If silencers were taken off the NFA, I think we'd see $200 'ok' silencers for every caliber you can think of. Yeah, more advanced machining and R&D is going to add value – but most of these companies that sell $1k cans would probably drop those cans price by almost half when they started selling hundreds of thousands of them instead of just hundreds or thousands.

  37. A good suppressor should reduce 30 or more decibels at a cost of $500 or so this may not be impossible to find now but difficult, i expect to get much higher quality then i can make a form one version out of a flashlight, most suppressors i have seen for the $500 range can't beat a Form 1 Maglite can.

  38. Okay, the segment lambasting Taran Butler’s actions (or lack of) was hilarious. I gave the video a thumbs up just for that.

  39. I agree with most of the comments, that they should not be so expensive. You pay for the Silencer, and then you need to pay for a tax stamp to get it. So if you buy a 400 silencer, you are into it for over 600. Living in Calif, it really does not matter, because it is not something that you can buy here anyway.. You have the Boxer's of the world that think if you own a gun you will be killing everyone in the city. Wait, how about if you have a gun you might protect them. I would love to see them come off the NFA list, and be available to everyone.

  40. Suppressors should never top $500, likely never top $300. I DO understand technology and development aren't free, but you can get a complete AR15 for under $500 and a suppressor has ZERO moving parts. I don't get it.

  41. I believe that the most basic of suppressors should atleast reduce the sound by half and cost less than $100 preferably $50 to $20 for a high durable model would be amazing

  42. not sure i understood ALL that was presented on this video, but i have noticed that the GUN MARKET PRICING is on an ever climbing ladder upward. the average JOE GO GUY is being left behind. sad for all of us.

  43. A silencer should cost less than $200! Yup that's not a typo! Less than a couple Benjamins! They have little steel or titanium in them and after being mass produced and fitted together they should never be a thousand or more. It's ridiculous how much they are marked up.

  44. Please keep me updated in regard to Gemtech's lawsuit. I am a big contributer and local influence to Gemtech business. I have had nothing but problems when purchasing Gemtech products over the last year due to Smith And Wesson not even acknowledging my orders. I have had to work my way up Smith And Wesson's chain of command 4-5 weeks after placing orders and being charged just to get my shipments out. So sad for Gemtech. They are or were a beautiful company of wonderful people to work with over the years. Sadly, now most of those employee's are no longer with Gemtech.

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