cEDH Deck Tech: Shuffle Hulk


[Sigi] That would probably be good, yeah. We’re gonna do that in editing so, like, I’m… I’m gonna hold up the thing again. Okay, looks better now. Then we can get started. Are you ready? Hello and welcome to another
Laboratory Maniacs deck tech. I’m Sigi and joining me today is Sickrobot, a
content creator himself and a mentor on the cEDH discord.
Hello, Sick, how are you? [Sick] I’m doing well. Thanks for having me on, Sigi. [Sigi] That is
nice to hear. We are going to be talking about a deck that is near and dear to
our hearts today. It’s Shuffle Hulk. Some of you may not have heard of that yet
but if you’re at all interested in Hulk strategies then this is one to pay
attention to. So, Sick, what is Shuffle Hulk? [Sick] Well, Shuffle Hulk is a four-color
Thrasios-Tymna Flash Hulk deck and it has been performing pretty well and the theory behind it is pretty solid too, so,
uh yeah. It’s, uh yeah, the deck is basically a super super dedicated Hulk
deck that is super focused on just trying to assemble either Flash plus
Hulk or a sac outlet plus getting Hulk on the board, and then trying to kill people
from there. [Sigi] Yeah, that is indeed what it does. So, Shuffle Hulk initially came
about after a reddit post by user Sleepy Jackdaw in late September of this year.
He kind of made a post wondering about, like, how come nobody is using this pile?
Then he showed us a pile consisting of the Breakfast combo, so Cephalid Illusionist plus Nomad’s en-Kor, and then it has
Blood Artist and a sac outlet. You combine that with in his case Gaia’s
Blessing in the deck and Narcomoeba to, like, get a Narcomoeba trigger
continuously and sac it and drain everyone for lethal. [Sick] Yeah, and might I add
that when he made that post he pretty much showed up every Hulk specialist in
the format because we had been working on a– on piles, many piles, tried a
bunch of them to try to get a win in a single Hulk trigger at instant speed
without additional mana, and we had been trying for about half a year at that
point. He just sort of did it in a single reddit post. So. [Sigi] Yeah, that that one post
changed a lot, to say the least. So, thanks to Sleepy Jackdaw. At this point, you–
you da man. Yeah, so we saw that post, we all basically went crazy and we got to
work right away. And what came out of it was Shuffle Hulk.
[Sick] Yes. [Sigi] So about like the general Shuffle Hulk shell: what we ended up deciding on
or liking the most on paper was more or less a new iteration of your four-color
Varolz or Definitely Not Varolz or however you want to call it. Would you
like to talk about that for a bit? [Sick] Yeah, sure, yeah, so the the general shell that
we settled on for Shuffle Hulk comes from a deck that I had been working on
for a long time before this called Definitely Not Varolz. It is basically
just a four color port of the original Varolz Hulk deck in green/black. Basically the point was to abuse sacrifice outlets and
cards like Natural Order and Pattern of Rebirth so that in addition to having
the regular just Flash plus Hulk combo you could also use the sac outlets that
were part of the Hulk piles in order to spark combos as well.
And I was working on that for a while to make it work and the shell just seems
like a perfect fit for a Shuffle. [Sigi] Yeah. I’ve been enjoying it so far to say the
least. It’s pretty good. And then, I think like with the transition to Shuffle we
didn’t make that many changes to the overall strategy, really, it’s mostly just
replacing the old Hulk piles that you had been using with the Shuffle package.
[Sick] Yeah, pretty much. I think Shuffle Hulk is only– it only
takes up one more slot for the combo and it was pretty much just a direct swap in
and out. [Sigi] Yeah. So what does Shuffle Hulk do? What is it that makes it so good? What’s,
like, how does the win condition work and why is being able to win at instant
speed in that way so great? [Sick] Well, first of all winning at instant speed is pretty
much just a direct bonus on top of anything else. I mean, not a lot of decks
can win an instant speed from no board position and just having that option to
be like, “Oh, in response to your Ad Nauseum, I’m gonna cast my Flash and win
before you can resolve it” is just pretty great no matter how you look at
it, so it’s always a just a great bonus. And especially when you’re playing in
interactive meta games and there’s a lot of counter magic being flung around, being
able to Flash in somebody’s end step after they tap out for a turn– Or, say
somebody taps out in somebody else’s end step, then you can Flash then as well and
catch them when they thought they were safe to tap out. [Sigi] Yeah, like right on top
of a counterspell wall when people have been throwing interaction left and right
you can just sit at the very end of it and keep your Flash Hulk in hand because,
like, it’s only two mana. You can just do it most of the time. [Sick] Oh yeah, if there’s
like a five mana combo to do it instant speed, like, we’ve seen it happen all the
time when people just like pass with five men open, it’s like, “oh, well, you have Ad
Nauseum, okay, we’ll just make sure to hold up mana.” But there’s a lot
of plausible deniability when you only have two mana open and you can just be
like, “No I just didn’t have cards to cast this turn and I’m just passing the
mana open” or you have, “Oh yeah, I have Flash Hulk and I’m just gonna kill you
whenever you tap out.” [Sigi] Yeah, it’s– it makes for some very interesting situations at
the table. I remember a game in my IRL playgroup where I did some testing on
the deck and the Yisan player who goes after me had a Scavenging Ooze in play
with enough mana open to pick me apart. So, I basically just put the combo in
play because I knew that the other two people didn’t have removal, but they were
gonna have counter magic later on and just sat there and waited for the Yisan
player to make a mistake. And then when he decided to tap out so he didn’t have
access to his Scavenging Ooze activations anymore I just went for it
and won the game. [Sigi] Yeah, you just get him. [Sigi] It’s really strong. [Sick] That’s a real
strength of the deck, I think, is that it is just– it’s so often just always in the
position to punish misplaays from other players or to punish missteps or– You
just, like– the other deck of the table stumbles a bit and it doesn’t get its
development going early enough and you just sort of get them because you’re
just so ready at all points in the game to take advantage of somebody not being
at full power. [Sigi] Yeah, absolutely. So, seeing as we have this powerful instant speed
win, how do we, like, form a game plan around that? How does the deck usually
play? [Sigi] So, generally because we’re a dedicated Hulk deck–that in combination
with the fact that we have this instant speed game plan with Flash and Hulk–
means that we get to do a lot of just sitting back in sandbagging. And just
waiting until there’s not enough interaction the table to stop us, and
just jamming whenever the window opens. I mean there are definitely the games
where you just have a turn two Flash Hulk and you cast Flash and you win the game
because nobody has mana open. And there are the games were even on like turn
four you do that just because people tapped out and you just had it. But for
the games where people are actually holding up interaction for you, yeah, it yeah
it requires a lot of patience and knowing your windows and knowing when to
go for it. [Sigi] Yeah, absolutely. Like, I think that’s the best way in which you can
really take advantage of the instant speed: when you– you’re not locked into
trying to win on your turn, so both in deck building and in your game plan you
can afford to just sit back and not have to interact as much when it comes to
protecting yourself, because you are just able to abuse those windows.[Sick] Oh yeah, just
the fact that you can just pretty much hold on to all your counter magic in order
to just protect yourself when you go for the win, because a lot of the time you
can just rely on other people at the table to have counter magic and for them
to stop other people at the table from winning. It’s just really powerful
because you end up going into the late game– or not even late game but just mid
game with like three more cards in hand and more interaction than anybody else
at the table. [Sigi] Yeah. Just in case, like, where if you if you see that nobody else
at the table has any interaction left and you’re sitting on a bit of counter
magic and your winning combo and they, like, they’re trying to stop someone else,
you can abuse that again to just win in response. [Sick] Yeah, definitely. I think we
should probably also touch on why the combo works at instant speed too.
[Sigi] Yes, absolutely. Let’s uh– let’s explain that for a moment. [Sick] So the base
combo as Sigi mentioned earlier is when you Flash Hulk your Hulk trigger gets
Cephalid Illusionist, Nomad’s en-Kor, Blood Artist and then a sac outlet such
as Viscera Seer or Carrion Feeder. And then what you do from there is
you activate Nomad’s en-Kor targeting Cephalid Illusionist,
which triggers Cephalid Illusionist and mills three cards off the top of your
library. This basically just is the same as a Breakfast combo and let’s you
mill your entire deck however many times you want, but the difference here is that
instead of having a Dread Return and Laboratory Maniac package we have a
Kozilek and a Narcomoeba in our deck and what happens is when we hit the
Narcomoeba it comes back onto the battlefield and then we can sacrifice it
and get a Blood Artist trigger and then when we hit the Kozilek
we can shuffle everything back into our library and keep doing that. And this all
happens at instant speed because you can just mill at any time and you can keep
activating Nomad’s en-Kor however many times you want. [Sigi] Yep, one thing that might
be important to notice here is, like, short cutting rules in relation to this
role and slow play because for some of you this might look an awful lot like Four
Horsemen. However, it is not. The Shuffle Hulk combo is deterministic. It’s not slow
play because like you can give a fixed number of iterations equal to however
many life points your opponents have. BUT it is conditional because you need to
decide– do different things depending on whether you mill Narcomoeba or Kozilek
first and that makes it not short-cuttable under tournament rules.
[Sick] Unfortunately, yes. I mean it’s it’s not a huge deal just
because generally whenever you start comboing people can just concede anyway–
[Sigi] Yeah. [Sick] –and there’s not a huge need to shortcut it, but it is important to
note that under current competitive rule sets so you cannot shortcut this combo,
you have to play it through. Which is not a big problem, I mean there’s only
like two decision points… or not even that, there’s a single decision point
during the entire combo: whenever you hit Narcomoeba before Kozilek or Kozilek
before Narcomoeba. [Sigi] It’s not hard to play through but it can take a bit, so
you– you might be sitting there for like five minutes or a bit longer if they
want you to play it out. [Sick] I’ll just say that you’re gonna get really good at picking up three cards
from the top of your library and flipping ’em over. And you might want
to brush up on your shuffling skills too. Work on getting your shuffle going. You’ve got
to style on some people too sometimes. You gotta break from the riffle
shuffle. Go for some waterfalls, you know. [Sigi] Oh boy. Okay so we’ve got that. We’ve
talked about the instant speed win. Are there any other things that make this
deck particularly good? [Sick] Yes. So aside from just the Flash Hulk combo,
which is a very strong combo in itself– I mean two mana, two card instant speed win is pretty
great–aside from just that we also have a bunch of cards that let us win without
either of those cards in our hand. We run both a sacrifice outlet package that
takes advantage of them to win the game with single other cards and we also run
a reanimation package with cards like Entomb and Necromancy. And as we all
know, Necromancy is a pretty good card with Hulk because if you cast it in
instant speed it will sacrifice itself during the next end step and get you a
Hulk trigger. [Sigi] Yep. [Sick] So there– yeah there are the three distinct packages in the deck
so we have the Flash Hulk combo and all the tutors that get that such as the
Merchant Scroll and Summoner’s Pact that are specifically for that combo but we
also have cards like Academy Rector and Pattern of Rebirth and Natural Order
that can combo with a single sac outlet and another creature just to win the
game, because you can sacrifice them to the sacrifice outlet such as like you
sacrifice an Academy Rector. Just do the sacrifice outlet. You would get the
Pattern of Rebirth to put it on any other creature that you control and
then you sacrifice that creature trigger Pattern of Rebirth and then you
go and get Protean Hulk and then you can sacrifice that to the sacrifice outlet
and go for the win there. [Sigi] Seems good. [Sick] And then yeah, with the– again with
the reanimation package it’s pretty great too, you can just cast Entomb plus
Necromancy, which is also a win that can win in other people’s turns. I mean, not
necessarily in instant speed because you have to wait until their cleanup step, but you
still got to win not on your own turn. [Sigi] Yeah, and that, as we’ve already explained
is quite useful. Another cool thing about this deck
is that it, in my opinion at least, plays really well off the top. Like if you’ve–
if you’ve gone for a win attempt and you’ve been stopped and you’re kind of
in top deck mode then this is still a really good deck to play because, like,
finding basically any tutor from that point guarantees that you’ll be able to
go again very soon. [Sick] Oh yeah, well one of the big concepts of the deck and one of
the main concepts of my previous Hulk decks like Definitely Not Varolz or
the four color sacrifice Hulk deck that carried over into this build is that I
really like running with the concept of any two tutors in the deck with each other
will win the game. Which just– it gives you a huge amount of consistency and
just great top decks a lot of the time because you can have any other Tutor in
your hand and then you hit another one off the top and you just get to win. Or
you have a lot of the time just a combo piece and then you hit like 75% of the
tutors in the deck will get you a win. [Sigi] Yeah, it’s quite good in that way. So
we’ve talked about the good–and there is a lot of good in this deck–is there
anything this deck struggles with? [Sick] There’s– there’s, yeah it struggles a
little bit particularly in the grind game. It’s– it doesn’t have, unlike
something like Paradox Scepter Thrasios where your whole game plan revolves
around having a lot of mana producing permanents and then just winning because
you have those. Where even if you don’t have a Paradox Engine or Isochron
Scepter ready to go you can still feed all that mana into Thrasios and generate
a bunch of advantage and just go from there. We don’t really have a lot of that.
Our game plan is focused on being pretty mana efficient so we don’t really need a
lot of acceleration, which means that we don’t really take advantage of Thrasios
that much and in the later games when there are creatures on the board we
also can’t really take advantage of Tymna either. So you can definitely get
in to the long games where you just get stuck with not a lot of
cards in hand and especially if there’s a hate piece on board for you it can get
a bit rough. [Sigi] Yeah that that does seem to be kind of the crux to Hulk decks and
more or less what keeps them in check in the overarching cEDH meta. Along with that
there is of course the typical Hulk issue of drawing your combo pieces. [Sick] Yeah
it’s– it’s never it’s never a good feeling to you know draw a Narcomoeba
or draw a Blood Artist when you really want them in your deck so you can get
them with the Protean Hulk. [Sigi] Yeah the one good thing about both this deck and the
Breakfast Hulk deck is that all the pile pieces are 1 to 2 mana, so even if you
draw them it is of course gonna set you back but you can cast them and you’re
still gonna be able to go off. It’s not too bad just, like, a bit of an annoyance.
[Sick] Yeah and also we do have a couple of ways to deal with having a combo piece
in our hand in the Shuffle Hulk deck. They’re not– they’re not super consistent
unless you’re playing a couple of extra cards to make it work but there are some
ways where you can combo with a combo piece in hand. [Sigi] Yeah. [Sick] Yeah, another
problem that you can have with Shuffle Hulk, especially with the stock build
that I think a lot of us are playing right now–or versions of it that are
close to that build– is that you tend to be pretty light on interaction. You’re
generally playing interaction like counter spells and removal in this deck
to further your own win con and not necessarily to stop other people from
winning, so we’re missing things like Negate like Delay like Counterspell
even sometimes like Mana Drain, just because they’re pretty expensive. Two mana
is a lot more than one mana when you’re trying to be mana efficient on
your win cons. So you’re– there’re definitely going to be some games where
you have to rely on other people to stop each other from winning and you’re just
not going to be able to do that. [Sigi] Yeah, it’s– it is something you’re gonna have to get comfortable with to an extent. [Sick] Yeah.
You can definitely mitigate that weakness just by changing your play
style and adapting to it, but it’s a definite weakness that the deck has
sometimes. [Sigi] Yeah. So one thing you mentioned earlier is
hate pieces. I think we should mention that a good number of, like, commonly used
Hulk hate pieces do not work against this deck. Please tell me why is that the
case and which pieces are those? [Sick] Well, first of all that was a big reason why a
lot of us were excited about this build after the initial excitement, was because
we figured out that there’s ways to get around a lot of the typical Hulk pace–
Hulk hate pieces. And that’s using a card called Memory’s Journey. Now what
Memory’s Journey does: it’s a two mana instant but we don’t really care about
that, we care that it has flashback for a green. And what it does is it shuffles
three target cards from a graveyard into the owners library which is really good
because we get to flash Hulk and then get our entire combo off of one trigger.
So at that point we don’t care if the Hulk gets exiled or if it leaves play or
gets shuffled back into our library, whatever, it because we don’t actually
have to use the Hulk again. And then at that point if anybody ever tries to use
a one-shot grave hate on our graveyard such as Tormod’s Crypt, Faerie Macabre,
Deathrite Shaman, Relic of Progenitus, any of these cards, we can actually keep
milling our library until we hit a Memory’s Journey, shuffle our required
combo pieces back into our library and then keep comboing on top of their
hate piece on the stack. Which is just, like, huge. That’s– that’s insane just for
an extra green you get to ignore any one-shot grave hate. That’s, like,
ridiculous. [Sigi] Yeah, it’s kind of funny how the existence of this has basically
devalued one-shot graveyard hate to an extent that it’s probably not worth
running anymore in a lot of decks. [Sick] Yeah, I mean like just
there’s so little opportunity cost– or not even opportunity but just cost in
general for the Shuffle Hulk player to be able to play around them, I mean just
like having an extra green mana up is not a big deal when your main combo is two
mana anyway. Like, oh, just having three mana, yeah, okay cool. That’s, like, I’m a
Mana Crypt and I’m good to go. [Sigi] Yeah, it’s– [Sick] And it’s good to note as well. Yeah, it’s good to
note as well, actually, that the Memory’s Journey also gets around removal spells
too. So let’s say you try to Abrupt Decay one of my dudes, I can just shuffle my
combo pieces back in my library in response and kill you on top of it. Like,
I don’t actually care about it that much. It’s obviously like having multiple
one-shot hate pieces is a thing, but a lot of the time I’d say it’s just less
efficient now than just playing something like Rest in Peace or Grafdigger’s
Cage against the deck. [Sigi] Yeah, it– if, like basically if the Shuffle Hulk deck gets
to the point where it has the combo on the field and it’s able to do it there’s
really not that much you can do to stop it. [Sick] Yeah, you really just want to stop them from ever getting the Hulk trigger in
the first place. I mean, once you’ve had a single Hulk trigger, it gets so much
easier to deal with any on-board hate Or it will just play around any
potential hate in general. [Sigi] Yep, so playing around hate is definitely a big part of
a Hulk deck when it comes to deck building and specifically constructing
piles. You’ve also brought up that there may be some awkwardness if you get like
a Narcomoeba or a Kozilek in hand. What can we do inside of Hulk piles to deal
with those issues? [Sick] Well, for the main build right now we have a workaround in
place which is a card called Body Snatcher. Now, what Body Snatcher does is it’s a four mana creature.
When it enters the battlefield you have to discard a card from your hand or it gets exiled. But it is good to note that it is not a replacement effect. That is a trigger, so you don’t actually have to discard a
creature card if you don’t want to. The other part of it is that once you
sacrifice Body Snatcher you can exile it from your graveyard and reanimate a
creature. So let’s say you have a Narcomoeba stuck in your hand. Instead of
going for the full pile off of the first Hulk trigger, you get a Hulk trigger,
you get a sacrifice outlet and the Body Snatcher, you use the Body Snatcher’s
“enters the battlefield” trigger to discard the Narcomoeba and then you
sacrifice the Body Snatcher to get back to Protean Hulk and sacrifice that
Protean Hulk again to go for the full combo. And at that point you can just
shuffle the Narcomoeba back into your library with the Kozilek or a Gaia’s
Blessing and just combo from there. And the same thing with the Kozilek, you
can discard the Kozilek and then with the shuffle trigger on the stack
you can sacrifice the Body Snatcher to reanimate the Protean Hulk and combo. [Sigi] Yeah.
It’s a very useful thing to have because from a long time of playing Breakfast
I’ve also encountered enough games where I’ve just had one of the pieces I want in my
graveyard stuck in my hand. We initially used Cabal Therapy as a workaround for
that but ended up finding Body Snatcher to be a lot more synergistic with just
how the deck works. [Sick] Yeah, we’ve come a long way from the Phantasmagorian days. [Sigi] Yes, absolutely. Oh man, that– those were definitely
some interesting days back then. [Sick] There were growing pains,
we’ll leave it like that. [Sigi] Yeah, I think that’s a good way to put it.
So what can we do in terms of maybe like slotting in different cards if we want
to beat on board hate like a Cursed Totem, like a Linvala, that kind of stuff? [Sick] So
we actually have ways to beat Cursed Totem and Linvala built into the deck. You do
need a couple of slots but they’re not actually that bad and they give you a
lot of play into those decks. So if you are seeing a lot of, say, Cursed Totem or
Lindvala in your meta, what you can do is you actually swap out Body Snatcher
for Spellseeker and Reanimate and but that lets you do is on your turn
if there’s a Cursed Totem or Linvala on the board you can flash Hulk, get the
Spellseeker, which gets Reanimate, and then you can get a sacrifice outlet, and
then you can get something like a Gilded Drake or a Leonin Relic Seeker. Or a Leonin
Relic-Warder, rather, which lets you remove the Lindvala or the Cursed Totem and then
you use the Reanimate to reanimate Protean Hulk and sacrifice it with a
sac outlet and you’re good to go. [Sigi] Yeah, it’s quite nice. The same
Spellseeker pile, if you’re not against hate, can also be used to grab Grand Abolisher
on your turn if you so desire. [Sick] Oh yeah you can just go for the the
uninteractable Breakfast classic of just, yeah, just going for sacrifice outlet.
Spellseeker, Grand Abolisher, and just locking people out of interacting with
you at all. [Sigi] Yeah on that note, however, that– like, the Grand Abolisher has kinda
lost a bit of value because of the Memory’s Journey back up. We just get more
or less a free layer of protection now so that is usually enough to get there.
[Sick] Yeah, and also that paired with the fact that we can win at instant speed now is
a huge deal because it just devalues Grand Abolisher a lot because after
you start winning at instant speed he doesn’t really do much and you just–
it’s just such a good thing to be able to do anyway. [Sigi] Yep. [Sick] He’s become a lot more
niche than he was in just Breakfast days of just always getting Grand
Abolisher because why not. [Sigi] Very true. So we’ve gone a bit over what you can do with
different Hulk piles. Let’s extend that to the rest of the deck and look at a
few key card choices. [Sick] Yeah. definitely. I know a lot of you might be asking about
the Kozilek– or Kozilek vs Gaia’s Blessing because we’ve mentioned both of them and
it might be a bit confusing which one we’re using and which one we’re not.
Originally the the reddit post by Sleepy Jackdaw originally used Gaia’s Blessing as
the shuffler and I think that was just because it is probably one of the more
well known, just because it sees play in Gitrog too. They might see play in some Eternal formats, who knows. But the reason why
we play Kozilek–and we play Kozilek in a lot of our builds now–is because it has
a shuffle effect that triggers from anywhere, so when it goes to the
Graveyard from your library it still works. When it goes to a graveyard from your
hand, still works. When it goes to the graveyard from the battlefield it still
works. As opposed to Gaia’s Blessing which has to go to your graveyard from your
library, which means that if you have a Blessing stuck in your hand it becomes a
lot harder to combo because you need to both get it into the graveyard and then
back into your library to mill again, or you need to get it into your library
somehow. So you have to have something like a Brainstorm or like a Noxious
Revival. As opposed to Kozilek, where you can just discard it and you’re good
to go, off to the races. [Sigi] Yep. It was kind of funny cuz I think in, like, the first
or second ever game I played on the deck that very interaction–like, we
initially had Gaia’s Blessing because of the reddit post–but then in a super
early game that interaction actually came up and I had the Gaia’s Blessing
stuck in my hand and I wasn’t able to win because of it.
[Sick] Yeah, I’m pretty sure we swapped it as soon as you drew the Gaia’s Blessing. [Sigi] Yeah. [Sick] Because it was like, “Oh, yeah, I don’t know why we’re playing this card when
we could just play something that we could actually combo with instead. [Sigi] Yeah. I’m glad that we found out that quickly
cuz that could have taken a while otherwise. [Sick] Oh yeah, no. I mean I could
definitely see us being like two months down the line and just be like why are
we playing this card, Jesus Christ. It is good– it is good to note, though, that there are some
builds running around with an Ad Naus package just because the rest of the deck apart from Hulk is so slim anyway. Because, again,
we’re being very mana efficient with all of our cards. In those types of decks
you generally want to swap out the cards like for the Blessing just because two
CMC is way less than eleven CMC. [Sigi] Yeah, unless you’re me and just play Naus and Kozilek because– [Sick] Yes.
[Sigi] — I like to live dangerously. [Sick] Would you ever Ad Naus without an
Angel’s Grace active? That’s– a that’s a question you have to ask yourself.
[Sigi] Yes, absolutely. Interestingly enough in my build of Shuffle Hulk I
actually only play Ad Nauseam. I don’t do Naus-Grace. [Sick] Oh really? Okay, I can see
that being more slot efficient just using Ad Nauseam as a one card win con
sometimes, for, say you rip a Mystical Tutor and you don’t have a lot of other stuff going on.
[Sigi] Yeah, that’s pretty much the idea. [Sick] Yeah, we also have a sort of weird
card choice if you’re perusing the Shuffle Hulk list you might recognize
that there’s no Swords to Plowshares. And that is for a couple of reasons, actually. First of all we’re not really that heavily reliant on white mana.
In fact we sort of want to cut out as much white mana as possible from our deck and just be a base bug deck to
increase our mana consistency and just make sure that we have all of our colors that matter as much as possible. So that’s a big reason, but another big reason is from my days of playing straight green black Hulk and D&V even sometimes, Swords to Plowshares can’t kill your own Hulk. [Sigi] Mm-hmm.
[Sick] So if you target your own Hulk with Swords to Plowshares it just gets exiled and you don’t get a trigger. So instead of playing Swords to Plowshares we actually play Pongify, Rapid Hybridization because they’re effectively the same card, I mean, the 3/3 is a downside, but there are definitely times where you just have to put a Hulk on board with say a Natural Order and you don’t have a way to kill it off and just having the extra access to that, say like with a Mystical Tutor or something. Or you just have it in hand. Just being able to kill off your own Hulk manually is a relevant thing sometimes.
[Sigi] Yep, absolutely. And on top of that we got the classic of course: it pitches to Force of Will. [Sick] Oh yes, blue cards are great. You can play just a blue card that does nothing. It would be better than a lot of other cards just because of it pitches to Force of Will. [Sigi] Yep. Blue is such a good color. Okay–
[Sick] Oh, blue is fantastic. [Sigi] So we’ve gone over a couple of card choices we’ve already gone into a bit about what you can do with different builds of the deck, now let’s elaborate on that. what kind of builds have we seen people play or try out or put together of this deck? [Sick] Well, we’ve seen– I think we’ve seen four distinct variations, not counting some of the just card swaps, but actual like four different engines slash packages that have been slotted into the deck. One big one is yeah the Ad Nauseum-Angel’s Grace deck which typically ends up coming with Bomberman, Auriok Salvagers and LED just to help when off of the LED instead of having to be worried about getting Hulk pieces stuck in your hand. I’ve seen some people test with it and it seems pretty good actually. You can just win the game off of a single Tutor sometimes, which is pretty great and then just having the combos that’s not reliant on just like– having– having the ability to Ad Naus with a RIP in play, find a removal spell in a combo anyway is pretty great or even you can swap in either combos that don’t need the grave at all and then with those instead and just avoiding one vector of hate against the deck is pretty cool. [Sigi] Yeah, also the Bomberman part is nice because it actually works through Grafdigger’s Cage [Sick] Yes, that’s a big one. Cage is one of the most– probably the most widely played Hulk hate piece just because it hits Hulk so much. It hits a lot of other people and it’s very easy to play through when you’re not on Hulk. If you’re just playing something like Consultation or a Storm you’re– you’re losing like some flashback stuff but yours– your main game plan is still online. It’s a one mana hate piece so it comes down super early to. [Sigi] Mm-hmm. Speaking of Consult, that’s another thing that I’ve seen in a different build of this deck: the like Lab Maniac Demonic Consultation combo as a way to have some backup that works through every sort of hate. Like, it doesn’t care about Cursed Totem it doesn’t care about Rest in Peace. It basically cares about nothing. [Sick] Yeah. I’ve seen yeah I think Shaper Savant was working on a build of the deck for a long time because I think he just hates extensive Hulk packages than he hates drawing Hulk pieces, but I can definitely see where it comes from. Yeah, the packages you just play Laboratory Maniac and then you play, I think, Demonic Consultation and Tainted Pact. Just because Tainted Pact is a fine card. It’s not that good in Hulk because you don’t really want to hit your Hulk pieces but it’s still sometimes a Tutor. But yeah, it just gives you the vector of just winning through Hulk hate, which is pretty nice. You can also I think it’s a lot better in styles of Breakfast where you’re already playing the Laboratory Maniac and just having the extra win con piece is pretty nice. [Sigi] Yeah, I agree. Tainted Pact is something I’ve been toying around with for a potential Breakfast update because it’s– it’s just one card and it can be useful outside of the combo. [Sick] Yeah. and then we’ve Also had sort of weirdly– but not that weirdly I guess– we’ve had some people porting Shuffle Hulk like shells to five color. Mostly Najeela. I think I’ve seen a Tazri deck or two floating around but mostly Najeela. And– They’ve made some swaps that, I mean, the- when you’re allowed to execute that Hulk combo it is strictly better in a lot of ways. But it’s really iffy on when you’re actually allowed to use that combo. [Sigi] Yeah, so what they’re talking about is a pile of Breakfast plus… I always forget the name of that card. [Sick] It is Volrath’s Shapeshifter. [Sigi] Right, thank you. So what that does is you basically keep milling your deck hoping to have the top card of your graveyard be the needed combo creature that will be copied by Shapeshifter. [Sick] Well, that’s a hard part because you’re allowed to determine which order cards go to your graveyard in. The hard part is you have to hit all of the cards in order. [Sigi] Yep. [Sick] So you have to– it uses I think like three creatures to do a combo where you turn Shapeshifter into something that can activate its ability and then reset it and turn it into something else and keep doing that. But yeah, like, you have to hit I think all three in order multiple times to actually kill the table, which is like that that’s very strictly into a Four Horsemen territory. [Sigi] Yes, so if you’re ever planning on taking something like this to an EDH tournament don’t do the Shapeshifter piles because they are very very non-deterministic and I don’t think anyone wants to be sitting there for possibly days on end just shuffling their deck. [Sick] Oh yeah, well, just be happy that if anybody does bring it to a real-life event you can just call slow play on them. [Sigi] Yeah. [Sick] You just you just wait until they hit the same game state twice and then you force them to move on. You’re good to go. [SIgi] Yep. Okay, so those are like different things that people have been toying around with for Shuffle Hulk, so there’s definitely more than just the version we’re looking at today, and if you’re interested in the deck I highly recommend checking those out because there might be something in there that works better for your meta. [Sick] Or even for your play style.
[Sigi] Or that, yeah. [Sick] Yeah, play style’s a big thing too. Just before we move on, sorry. I sort of want to touch on one more package swap that we touched on earlier, but just a quick touch for it is swapping out Body Snatcher for a Spellseeker and Reanimate. It’s definitely– It’s definitely a valid meta swap not just for say Cursed Totem and Linvala but also sometimes you want to have Spellseeker in the deck just because Spellseeker is actually an okay Tutor sometimes as well. It can go get Summoner’s Pact or Flash or any other Tutor chain that you want to go for. And it can be a good spot sometimes if you need additional utility after you flash Hulk. [Sigi] Yeah. I fully agree. I’m currently on Spellseeker just as a Tutor simply because it can get either half of the combo or just random other stuff. I’m not on Reanimate but that one is at the top of my, like, flex list of things to put in. And that’s another really good way in which you can adjust the deck for your meta because we have a bunch of flex slots and we have a good number of cards we can fill those with. What are they? [Sick] Yes, well, just before we get into this, I think this is a thing that should be said for I think every deck but especially Shuffle Hulk is that you should definitely adjust the deck for your meta. Don’t just take the stock list from online or just rip somebody’s list and then just try to play that all the time. I definitely suggest taking it into a group play session. Just test it out see what needs to be made swaps. Even just looking at a list before you take it into a play group and just making swaps that you think makes sense. It’s a huge part of upping your win rate with the deck and just making sure that it’s well tuned to what you’re gonna be playing in. [Sigi] Yeah, absolutely.
[Sick] That being said, some of the cards that I think it me and Sigi have both really liked in specific meta situations and specific pod compositions are Null Rod. Null Rod is great against pretty much any style of PST deck or any non-green deck just because they’re relying so much on rocks for their mana development. [Sigi] Yeah. [Sick] Just being able to just like slap down basically what is a two mana lock spell that you’re not affected all at all by is just huge. [Sigi] Yeah, it’s super good. [Sick] It just sets back the table way further than it should, which is great in some cases. You can also– [Sigi] If we– if we like consider what the, uh, let’s say stiffest competition for Shuffle Hulk is or the deck that can best take advantage of a game situation after we’ve been stopped once then the two that come to my mind are PST and Raza Cats and both of those kind of have trouble dealing with Null Rod. [Sick] I would definitely agree with that I’d throw Consultation into that as well. Consultation– [Sigi] Oh yeah! [Sick] –can really take advantage of a Hulk deck being at the table if they’re well equipped to handle it. Say if they have like any amount like maybe two Pyroclasms, Grafdigger’s Cage, a bunch of counter magic set up ready to go. They can super super easily take advantage of you being at the table. And Null Rod helps deal with lot of those decks. Maybe not Raza Cats as much because, I mean–
[Sigi] Oh yeah, that’s true. They can– they can– [Sick] They can just–
[Sigi] –get some interaction. [Sick] They just Tutor a removal spell for it when they’re already going and it doesn’t really stop them from winning but it’s still just shutting down two of your main opposition decks is pretty great. Another card that can deal with opponents stax pieces is Cyclonic Rift. You might notice that we’re not playing it in the base list and that’s because generally Cyclonic Rift isn’t as good as Chain of Vapor just because it costs the extra mana and you’re a lot of the time in non-stax pods just needing to remove a single thing, or, like, bounce one of your own… I don’t know, like a Sol Ring, a Mana Crypt, just to generate a bit of extra mana. But in stax-heavy metas or metas that are playing a lot of things like bears that shut you down, Containment Priests– multiple people playing Grafdigger’s Cages– anything like that, a Cyclonic Rift can be super valuable just because you go into the late game and then Cyc Rift on somebody’s end step and get rid of all the hate pieces. [Sigi] I’ve won so many games on Teferi by just doing that. It’s kind of silly at this point. [Sick] Oh yeah, and I think it’s one of the easier swaps to make too – I mean there’s not a whole lot of opportunity cost if you just make the swap of a removal spell for Cyc Rift. [Sigi] And like hypothetically I think one thing you shortly brought up not too long ago–in theory we could make a version of this deck that leans a bit more on getting more mana so, like, we could slot in Bloom Tender along with it, for instance. [Sick] Yes, that’s something I’ve been looking at recently in and toying around with is playing one or two just large mana engines in the deck to sort of help with the long game against something like PST or something like Razakats. Yeah, just playing something like Bloom Tender. Playing even like a Priest of Titania in the deck. They–those would all go really well with the Cyc Rift because they just let you fuel the mana that you need to cast an overloaded Cyclonic Rift. Just sort of touching on that, too, I’ve actually been testing out a version with Bloom Tender and with Freed from the Real. So they’re taking inspiration from the PST with Doomsday from the rank meta, but just as sort of just an alternate win con where you– I’m sort of wanting to play the Bloom Tender anyway and just having the option to go for a non grave-based combo is actually pretty nice. It hasn’t come up yet but I’m looking at testing it out more. [Sigi] Yeah that might be cool. I’ve seen a few people put that into decks here and there like Cameron’s recently made an update to Tasigur where he is playing that combo as well. [Sick] Yeah. Another one that I sort of came up with–Well, I don’t know “came up with” but that I used to great effect in some of the Discord ranked games was the Bosejiu and Crop Rotation package, which is just great into any meta that is just bogged down with nothing but blue decks. I mean we there was a long stretch of time there where pretty much every ranked game was going to like oh there are three Hulk decks to the table that all had Flash in hand and they could all win at instant speed so whoever cast Flash first loses and then there’s one other person that’s doing like just counter spells and just stopping everybody else from winning. So we’d go into just like, “Yeah, we’re like turn 16 of just everybody holding a Flash because we can’t really do anything” and Bosejiu is just great for those types of games cuz like if you just like, you just like stop somebody from Flashing and then you like end step Crop Rotation to Bosejiu and then just cast an uncounterable Flash especially with Shuffle’s resiliency post-Flash, it’s just so hard to do anything about that. [Sigi] Mm-hmm. Yeah and I think when the meta is like that and you want to keep playing a deck like Hulk then taking those kind of measures is a very good thing. Like, similarly, I’ve put Cavern of Souls into Breakfast for a while because it lets me like, play an uncounterable Grand Abolisher which then lets me win. [Sick] Oh yeah. [Sigi] And those kind of lines are I feel somewhat undervalued if of course they are in the right context. [Sick] Yeah, I think–I think a lot of the time people will see card choices like that in a deck and they’ll be like “Oh, why are you playing this really niche card, like, this seems strictly worse than just like having an untapped land.” And it is a lot of the time but when you are playing in these very specific metas there are–there’s a lot to be said about tuning specifically for those metas. Just making changes that make sense and where you’re still playing good cards but the cards that are more tuned to the decks that you’re playing against. [Sigi] Yeah. It’s a very good thing to keep in mind when you’re picking up this deck or any other deck. Just take a good long look at the deck and identify which of these cards you might be able to shift around to get more of an edge against the decks you’re gonna be playing against. [Sick] Yeah, definitely. And another another swap–got one more here. One more major one is Aven Mindcensor. [Sigi] Oh yeah. [Sick] Now Aven Mindcensor is a pretty messed up card in general. I’m just gonna come out and say that outright. It is way too good for how much it costs. I mean, three mana is a lot of mana but it’s still, like, it’s a–it’s a Stranglehold on a stick with Flash for three mana. I don’t know man.
[Sigi] It’s kind of crazy. [Sick] It’s–Aven Mindcensor is like probably one of the more Splashable sideboard meta swaps just because, like, you could put it into like anything. I don’t know, like, you’re playing it in like any three four color meta and you just like hit people’s fetch lands with it. Yeah, sure. Like, that’s good enough. But, like, where it really shines is against other Hulk decks or other Razaketh decks, where their win cons involve searching their library and just having a generic hate piece that’s good anyway but also happens to shut down their win conditions is just super strong. [Sigi] Yep. [Sick] That’s just– that’s not even counting– [Sigi] A domino effect. [Sick] Yeah, it’s not even count the fact that it’s also a flyer which means that you just get free Tymna beats sometimes. It converts itself into an extra card every turn. Like, I don’t know, what’s not to love? [Sigi] It’s a really really good card and one that I think quite clearly was not made with EDH in mind. [Sick] Yeah I mean there are a lot of things that have to go right in the format for Aven Mindcensor to be useful. But oh my god did it go right in this format. [Sigi] Yep. It’s a really really good card and, like, even in decks such as PST it can be a useful slot in. [Sick] Oh yeah, I think like any deck that has white in it should probably just consider Mindcensor for its flex slots or even for main deck slots sometimes just because it just hits such a wide swath of cards. And it’s really good at locking people out of coming back from a game. Say you’re all on a really–in a really low resource situation. Mindcensor pretty much shuts off every tutor from their deck from being a live draw. I mean, to a degree, but like for it–a lot of the time you’ll just be like oh yeah like none of your tutors are gonna find any of the cards that win you the game anymore, so it– that alone is like 25% of a lot of cEDH decks. It’s just–it’s really good in those situations. [Sigi] It’s amazing. Like if you consider that almost all of the consistency we have in this format comes from playing a ton of tutors that turn any one copy of an effect into like five or six and you turn off five of those six copies off the card that can deal with Aven Mindcensor and yeah it’s quite impressive. [Sick] Oh yeah. [Sigi] Okay, enough about Aven Mindcensor. It’s a good card, please consider playing it. As like a last bit we usually do a few opening hands on here. [Sick] Yeah. [Sigi] We’ve got three opening hands prepared today. Let’s do the first one of those. [Sick] Sure, so the first one that we have here is a bit of a 50-50 hand. It’s a bit of a pod-dependent and a bit of a risky hand. The cards in it are Toxic Deluge Lim-Dul’s Vault, Protean Hulk, Polluted Delta Nature’s Claim, Merchant’s Scroll and Arbor Elf. [Sigi] Whoo, yeah, that’s–that is a tough one so– [Sick] Well, one-landers is always–always gonna be a problem for pretty much any deck unless you have extra mana production. But we also have the added axis of awkwardness where you’re only gonna have a guaranteed access to two colors of mana in this opening hand, which is sort of awkward when we’re dealing with bug cards. So… [Sigi] Yep, like the play on this kind of hand is gonna be like turn one Delta fetch, drop, play Arbor Elf turn two either we rip a land or we don’t and if you don’t we just cast Merchant’s Scroll and then we try to win on turn three with zero protection and not even Memory’s Journey backup. [Sick] Yeah, this hand is I think–I think it’s going to be dependent on a pod comp a lot of the time. If you’re playing in a pod with mono-black Sidisi, Godo and some like, Grenzo Doomsday, yeah, this hand is keepable. You’re–you’re guaranteed going to get to a turn three win. That’s about as fast as you can ask for consistently. So not bad there, but if you’re looking at any ANY amount of interaction from any of the other decks at the table I’d probably ship this one. [Sigi] Yeah, same. It’s just not safe enough and I mean of course you can hope to get interaction or more mana off the top of your deck but I really wouldn’t bet on it. [Sick] I mean if there’s like—if there’s a cantrip instead of a Toxic Deluge or instead of the Nature’s Claim I think this would be a lot more keepable but as-is… [Sigi] Another big thing about this hand is it doesn’t cast Tymna. [Sick] It does not. White mana– you don’t need a lot of it but you generally want at least one source at some point in this deck just because Tymna is also a messed up card. It generates way more cards than it should and a lot of the time you can just lean on a turn two Tymna to start drawing you out of holes all the time because not everybody’s gonna have creatures and just gaining the extra 1 to 2 cards per turn can be such a huge deal. [Sigi] Mm-hmm. Yeah so to sum it up this hand, it does cast flash turn 3. It doesn’t however have access to black mana for Lim-Dul’s Vault it doesn’t have any form of interaction. It doesn’t cast Tymna. In other words– [Sick] It doesn’t do much! It goes for a win,
but that’s about it. [Sigi] Yeah, it goes for a win. If you don’t win there you’ve basically lost the game. And I think we can say that on the deck like this that has such good consistency, this is often not what we need to go for. [Sick] Yeah, and you can definitely be a bit liberal with the Mulligans in this deck just because there are so many pieces that like actually do things or progress you towards winning the game. You can definitely mull hands if you’re not sure if you want to keep them or not and just look for better options. I’ve–I go down to 6 a bunch and I still win a bunch of those games just because you don’t even need the seventh card sometimes just because it’s so card and mana efficient. [Sigi] Yep, okay. Let’s take a look at the second hand [Sick] Sure. You want to read this one off? [Sigi] I prefer if you do it. I’m having
a bit of trouble seeing it from here. [Sick] Sounds good. So this hand has Entomb, Mystical Tutor, Mana Crypt, Tarnished Citadel, Summoner’s Pact Sylvan Library and Eladamri’s Call [Sigi] Okay, what do you think? [Sick] So this one’s pretty much a snap keep for me. The Tarnished Citadel will make you produce all the mana that you need which includes the blue from Mystical Tutor. The Mana Crypt is just gravy. The biggest appeal of this hand is that you can go turn one Mystical Tutor into turn two Summoner’s Pact for a Protean Hulk and then just win the game by casting flash. [Sigi] Yeah. [Sick] That’s–that’s alright. That’s always a nice one to hand but even on top of that if–you–say people are holding up blue mana on the turn one you would go for the flash instead you can just cast a Sylvan Library and start racking up cards. [Sigi] Yep. [Sick] Which is pretty great. [Sigi] If that’s not good enough you also just still have Entomb and Eladamri’s Call to set up even more backup plans if you so desire. [Sick] Oh yeah, this hand just has backups upon backups upon backups on top of the turn two Flash Hulk. [Sigi] Yep, this is really, really good. [Sick] I think–I think the one thing you would have to be careful about in this hand is not jamming the flash because as soon as you jam the flash it means that you’ve cast the Summoner’s Pact and that means that you’re losing the next turn because you’re not gonna have the mana to pay for it. [Sigi] Yeah. Unless of course you rip another land of the top turn two or something. [Sick] Yes. Okay. [Sigi] Cool yeah I mean this this one’s quite clear-cut I don’t think there’s a ton to talk about. [Sick] Yeah. Let’s move on to the last hand we’ve got today. This one is a bit… weird. [Sick] It’s a bit weird. So this hand has Mana Crypt Leonin Relic Warder, Gilded Drake, Flusterstorm, Wild Growth, Overgrown Tomb and Island in it. So this is a bit awkward. I think if you gave this to people that weren’t particularly experienced in the deck or didn’t really know what was going on or anything you might get a couple of people that were keeping, I think? [Sigi] Yeah, possibly. [Sick] But there are a couple of things that make this a lot more awkward than it might look at first. Because at first you look at it you’re like, oh well I have two lands, a Mana Crypt, Wild Growth, some counter magic, couple of creatures. I should be fine. But you don’t really have a direct path to the win or even any consistent path to the win here, which would be fine if you could cast Tymna. Which you also can’t do because there’s no white mana in this hand. [Sigi] Mm-hmm. [Sick] Just, yeah, just in general like–again having the Tynma can fix a lot of bad draws but you have to be able to cast the Tynma first. And actually start rockin’ in cards to get there. [Sigi] It’s really interesting how, like, Tymna being cast–uh, not castable is such a big deal in this deck. Like, she’s–she is your key engine, more or less. [Sick] Oh yeah, Tymna being a card advantage engine in the command zone is actually like super important for a lot of the play lines for the deck, where say you’re in an interactive pod where you know you’re not gonna be able to jam through an early win. Just sticking in early Tymna and just grinding to victory with nothing but card advantage is a very valuable line of play to have. [Sigi] Yeah, it’s come in handy a number of times. [Sick] Yeah. [Sigi] Okay, so those were a few sample opening hands. These are what you can expect when playing the deck. Overall I think the hands I’ve had so far in goldfishing and actual games have leaned more towards the better side. I feel like this deck does have a lot of hands that it can just make work. [Sick] Yeah, there’s a lot where if you hit just like a tutor and a combo piece you’re just good to go. There are a lot of hands I’ve had where other people have looked at them and been like well I don’t know if I would keep this it seems a bit awkward and just, like, no, it’s got like–it’s got Entomb and a creature tutor that’s like good enough. That’ll win the game. [Sigi] Yeah the power of the, uh–two tutors can do anything. [Sick] Yeah. And also ,big one too that I don’t know if we mentioned is Survival of the Fittest. And how much it can fix draws. [Sigi] Ooh, yeah. If you just have a Survival of the Fittest in your hand this deck abuses that really hard. Like way harder than a lot of other Hulk decks, actually, just because you could do stuff like get Apprentice Necromancer with it. [Sigi] Yeah. And then once you have an Apprentice Necromancer to Survival of the Fittest on the board you don’t have to cast spells anymore to win the game. [Sigi] Yeah, and that–that is super good. Okay, I think now we’ve said a lot about Shuffle Hulk. It’s a very cool deck, very cool Hulk pile and there’s a lot of different things you can do with it. If there’s anything to take away from this deck tech along with all the info about the deck I think it’s that especially for decks like this it’s important to think about the deck and to make adjustments that are gonna work not just for the decks you’re gonna be playing against but also for yourself as a player. One of the good things that we can do in competitive EDH is having the freedom of having 98 or 99 cards in your deck to adjust things and Shuffle Hulk is a very, very good canvas that you can use to great success. [Sick] Oh yeah. the shell is super flexible. You just do whatever you want with it honestly. [Sigi] Yeah. It just works. And that’s what’s so nice about it. This has been a Lab Maniacs deck tech for Shuffle Hulk. I’m Sigi; joining me was Sickrobot. Thank you all for watching and we will see you next time.

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38 thoughts on “cEDH Deck Tech: Shuffle Hulk

  1. It still technically falls into 4 horsemen. It is not deterministic as you cannot state how many iterations it takes to kill your opponents. In most playgroup it is non-relevant, but it is important to not.

  2. Hey guys!
    I have a little question.
    Isn't it better to play zulaport cutthoat instead of blood artist?
    Since the first one doesn't Target and it's a 1/1 (Wich can be relevant since edric is in the meta) and it's a human

  3. It’s technically not deterministic, though it is still guaranteed to work and is at no risk of violating the Loop rules.

  4. So I don't have enough time to watch the whole video now, but I will finish after work. My question is can you play gaeas blessing over kozilek?

  5. Another, lesser benefit of Shuffle is that it's incredibly budget friendly to make the combo work out. For The Spike Feeders deck building competition, there was a $75 Xerox Shuffle Hulk deck that is absolutely able to combo off. It's slightly worse as it did die to a couple pieces of on board hate, but I was quite surprised by the power level of it

  6. Even if at MAX volume on my laptop, had to stick my ear near the speakers! Hard to hear what you guys are discussing. improve the audios, mic or whatever. On a more personal note, honestly SIGI you speak too monotonous, your pauses are a little bit annoying. Please take my opinions as constructive criticisms, for I still enjoy the content and topics that you guys make. PEACE!

  7. what is the best combo pile that doesn't need white ? other than tutors and silence the only white card is nomads en kor

  8. I think najeela seems like a more practical shell in a grindy pod, access to multiple 1 card combos in addition to the hulk lines and a solid plan C in najeela beats the table. You also get access to card draw that would make a pst deck cry. Also, I like how you guys said how great aven mind sensor is but didn't include how amazing it is against hulk decks.

  9. Not shortcuttable?
    How. 'Yeah, if i ever mill Kozzy i have my deck back and if i ever mill narcomeba i sac it, if necessary with Kozzy's ability on the stack'.
    Just because there is a choice to be made?

  10. I dont quite get it if all they wanted was to win at insta speed the karmic body doubler reveillark and any creature with etb/dead dmg would had done no?

  11. Can you actually call slow play on them? Is the game state actually the same if the order of cards is different?

  12. Just found your channel and subscribed. I'm mainly a casual edh player but have been tweaking my Vorel more for cedh.

  13. Hey hi,

    I think you mentioned a 4 color Secret Varolz deck? Is there a primer about such a thing? That seems very interesting

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