An Early Look at the 2020 Election | The New York Times Close Up with Sam Roberts


♪ [THEME MUSIC] ♪>>I AM SAM ROBERTS OF THE NEW YORK TIMES AND WELCOME TO THE NEW YORK TIMES CLOSE UP. THE 2020 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION IS 606 DAYS AWAY. AT THIS EARLY STAGE THE DANCE CARD ON THE DEMOCRATIC SIDE IS QUICKLY FILLING UP. ALTHOUGH ALMOST AS MANY CANDIDATES ARE LEAVING THE FIELD AS ENTERING. WHERE DO WE STAND RIGHT NOW AND WHAT WILL THE IMPACT MEAN FOR LOCAL CANDIDATES AND ISSUES SPECIFIC TO NEW YORK? JOINING US TODAY ARE TRIP GABRIEL, NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT FOR THE NEW YORK TIMES AND ELEANOR RANDOLPH, CONTRIBUTING WRITER FOR THE TIMES. LET’S TALK FIRST ABOUT THE FACT THAT THIS WEEK THERE SEEM TO BE MORE PEOPLE LEAVING THE RACE THAN GETTING INTO THE RACE. MAYOR BLOOMBERG IS AT THE TOP OF THAT LIST. DID WE THINK HE WAS GOING TO RUN OR NOT?>>A COUPLE OF MONTHS AGO, I THOUGHT IT WAS POSSIBLE BEFORE A LOT OF OTHER PEOPLE GOT INTO THE RACE. I WOULD NOT BE SURPRISED IF HE TALKED TO JOE BIDEN AND REALIZED JOE BIDEN WOULD GET INTO THE RACE AND IF HE GOT IN, THAT CENTER PATH WOULD BE DIVIDED. HE HAS SAID AND HIS PEOPLE HAVE SAID THAT THE ONE THING HE WANTS IS GETTING RID OF TRUMP AND SO, NOT ONLY WILL HE PUT MONEY IN, HE WILL PUT A TON OF MONEY IN, AS MUCH AS $500 MILLION. IF THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT THAT — THEY ARE PUTTING TOGETHER AN ANALYTICS TEAM — THIS IS A GUY THAT MADE MONEY IN DATA, SO HE’S TRYING TO PUT TOGETHER SOMETHING THAT WILL HELP THE FEEBLE DEMOCRATS AND THAT WOULD BE — THAT COULD BE VERY HELPFUL.>>ARE YOU SAYING THAT BIDEN HAS A BETTER CHANCE OF GETTING ELECTED THEN HE WOULD?>>I DON’T REALLY KNOW WHAT HIS THINKING IS, BUT I THINK PEOPLE AROUND HIM THINK — FIRST OF ALL, BIDEN IS DOING BETTER IN THE POLLS THAN BLOOMBERG. BLOOMBERG HAS SOME BAGGAGE THAT HE WOULD HAVE TROUBLE WITH IN THE PRIMARY. THE STOP AND FRISK STUFF IN THE CITY AND SOME OF THE ME TOO QUESTIONS ABOUT HIS FRIENDS AND THINGS LIKE THAT. I THINK IF BIDEN WANTS TO DO THIS, THE FACT THAT BLOOMBERG IS SITTING THERE READY TO SUPPORT HIM AND MAYBE THAT IS WHY SHERROD BROWN GOT OUT. MAYBE HE KNOWS THAT BIDEN IS THE CENTRIST CANDIDATE.>>DO WE WANT A CENTRIST CANDIDATE? THERE SEEMS TO BE A LOT OF NOISE COMING OUT OF THE LEFT.>>I JUST CAME BACK FROM PENNSYLVANIA WHICH WAS ONE OF THE STATES IN 2016 THAT WENT FOR TRUMP AND IT’S THE PRIMARY REASON THAT HE IS IN WHITE HOUSE TODAY. IT IS A SWING STATE, JOE BIDEN’S NATIVE STATE AND THERE IS A HUGE TREPIDATION AMONG ESTABLISHMENT DEMOCRATS IN PENNSYLVANIA THAT A HARD LEFT CANDIDATE IS NOT THE RIGHT CANDIDATE FOR DEMOCRATS TO WIN BACK PENNSYLVANIA, MICHIGAN AND WISCONSIN, WHICH ARE THE THREE STATES THAT TRUMP WON BY TOTAL. LESS THAN 80,000 VOTES IN 2016 AND REPRESENT DEMOCRATS’ BEST PROMISE FOR DEFEATING TRUMP IN 2020 IN TERMS OF THE ELECTORAL MAP. THERE IS A FEAR THAT IF IT IS A BERNIE SANDERS OR ELIZABETH WARREN, EVEN THOUGH THERE IS A LOT OF GRASSROOTS ENERGY AMONG PROGRESSIVES AND LIBERALS, WE SEE THAT IN CONGRESS ON POLICY ISSUES, THAT IT WILL MAKE IT A LOT HARDER TO WIN BACK THE FOLKS WHO VOTED FOR DONALD TRUMP. THERE WAS NO SMALL NUMBER OF THEM ACROSS THE MIDWEST. IF BIDEN OR BROWN — RIGHT NOW, BROWN IS OUT. — THE POTENTIAL CANDIDATES A WEEK AGO WHO WOULD BE AT THE MODERATE LANE. IT IS STILL VERY OPEN AND KIND OF A POLITICAL CLICHE TO TALK ABOUT IT. THERE IS A MAJOR OPPORTUNITY FOR DEMOCRATS.>>DO PEOPLE REALLY THINK THAT DEMOCRATS WILL DO THINGS LIKE REJECT THE AMAZON DEAL, BAN HAMBURGERS? ARE THEY REALLY CONCERNED THE COUNTRY IS GOING TO SHIFT FAR LEFT IF THE DEMOCRATS WIN?>>I THINK, THEY ARE AFRAID THAT THE EASY LINE WAS HANDED. IT IS A HUGE LIST OF VERY FAR LEFT SOCIAL POLICIES THAT IMMEDIATELY MADE IT EASY TO SLAM DEMOCRATS AS A PARTY SOCIALISTS AND PIE IN THE SKY IMPRACTICAL FOLKS. CERTAINLY, A REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST IN THE SWING STATES WOULD BE HAPPY RUNNING AGAINST A CANDIDATE LIKE THAT.>>WHERE WERE WE AT THIS POINT FOUR YEARS AGO? WHO WAS AHEAD, WHO WAS NOT?>>WHEN YOU LOOK BACK AT ANY PRESIDENTIAL CYCLE, THE FIRST THING YOU HAVE TO DO IS RIP UP THE POLLS. FOUR YEARS AGO, HILLARY CLINTON WAS LEADING ALL OTHER CANDIDATES IN THE DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY BY 50 POINTS AND EVEN THEN, A BIG FIELD. TODAY, JEB BUSH, SCOTT WALKER WERE THE TOP TWO CANDIDATES. TRUMP, NOT REALLY ON MANY PEOPLE’S RADAR AT ALL.>>WE WERE STILL PREDICTING HILLARY CLINTON THE DAY BEFORE THE ELECTION, SO I THINK IT IS A TIME FOR SURPRISES AND LOOKING AT THIS DEMOCRATIC FIELD, I THINK THERE IS SOMEBODY WHO HAS NOT GOTTEN IN THERE YET. MICHAEL BENNET IN COLORADO.>>BESIDES JOE BIDEN AND HOWARD SCHULTZ.>>SCHULTZ IS TALKING ABOUT RUNNING THIRD PARTY AND THAT WILL BE ONE OF THE INTERESTING THINGS TO SEE. IF YOU LOOK AT SOME OF THE STATES THAT WENT FOR TRUMP, THE GREEN PARTY TOOK ALMOST HALF. I HAVE OFTEN WONDERED ABOUT THE THIRD PARTIES. WHO FUNDS THE THIRD PARTIES, WHO IS LOOKING AT HOW YOU CAN DRAW THE VOTES AWAY FROM YOUR OPPONENT? I DON’T KNOW IF HE IS REALLY GOING TO RUN AS AN INDEPENDENT, BUT TO ME, THAT WOULD BE CRAZY FOR THE DEMOCRATS.>>IS THERE ANY WAY TO PERSUADE HIM NOT TO?>>JUST DON’T DRINK STARBUCKS COFFEE, I GUESS.>>DO WE HAVE ANY SENSE AS TO HOW THE FIELD IS SHAPING UP?>>EVEN THOUGH I SAID RIP UP THE POLLS, I THINK THERE’S A FEW PEOPLE THAT HAVE GATHERED MORE INTEREST AMONG VOTERS. CERTAINLY, WE HAVE BIDEN AND BERNIE SANDERS. SANDERS HAS HAD SOME RALLIES IN NEW YORK AND THEN IN CHICAGO. HE DREW HUGE CROWDS. THE SENDER’S SUPPORTERS ARE STILL THERE FROM WHAT I CAN TELL IN LARGE NUMBERS. I THINK OF THE MUCH LESSER-KNOWN CANDIDATES WHO HAVE ANNOUNCED, KAMALA HARRIS IS PROBABLY THE BREAKOUT STAR. VERY INTERESTING BACKGROUND AS A FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL, LEAD PROSECUTOR. SHE REPRESENTS A YOUNGER DEMOGRAPHIC THAT IS TYPICAL OF WHAT IS DRIVING THE MOMENTUM AND EXCITEMENT OF THE DEMOCRATIC BASE. SHE HAS THAT AND I THINK A WILDCARD THAT WE HAVE NOT MENTIONED IS BETO O’ROURKE WHO SEEMS TO BE LEANING TOWARD GETTING IN. HE IS THE FORMER TEXAS CONGRESSMAN WHO ALMOST KNOCKED OFF TED CRUZ IN THE SENATE RACE. INTERESTING CANDIDATE AS A PERSONALITY. HE IS NOT A HARD-LEFT “SOCIALIST” TYPE OF CANDIDATE. HE HAS SHOWN HE CAN ATTRACT VOTERS WHO ARE MORE IN THE MIDDLE.>>DO YOU THINK PETE BUTTIGIEG HAS ANY –>>THANK YOU FOR SAYING HIS NAME. EVEN THOUGH IT’S MY BUSINESS I STILL CAN’T DO THAT.>>IN ALL SERIOUSNESS, WILL VOTERS VOTE FOR SOMEONE WHOSE NAME THEY CANNOT PRONOUNCE?>>HE CALLS HIMSELF MAYOR PETE. HE IS A FASCINATING GUY. HE IS GAY.>>AND YOUNG.>>AND SMART AS A WHIP. I DON’T KNOW IF THE COUNTRY IS READY FOR A GAY PRESIDENT. WE’VE NOW HAD A BLACK PRESIDENT. NOT A WOMAN YET.>>I WOULD NOT DISCOUNT ANYONE BECAUSE OF THEIR IDENTITY. ONE OF THE LESSONS OF 2016, 2012, AND 2008 — NOBODY THOUGHT AN AFRICAN AMERICAN WHOSE NAME WAS BARACK HUSSEIN WAS ELECTABLE. THERE WAS SOMEONE WHO THEY BELIEVED WHEN HE SPOKE, EVEN IF HE WAS NOT TELLING THE TRUTH IN TRUMP’S CASE. HE WAS CONFIDENT AND CONNECTED WITH GROUPS OF VOTERS.>>FAKE BELIEVABILITY.>>LET’S LOOK AT WHAT IMPACT THE ELECTION WILL HAVE ON NEW YORK WHEN WE COME BACK. ♪>>WE ARE BACK WITH TWO PEOPLE FROM THE NEW YORK TIMES. A LOT OF CANDIDATES IN THIS, EVEN THOUGH MICHAEL BLOOMBERG HAS RULED HIMSELF OUT. ARE ANY OF THESE CANDIDATES REAL CONTENDERS? WE LOOK AT THEM AS NEW YORKERS. WHAT DO PEOPLE AROUND THE COUNTRY THINK?>>I THINK THERE IS A VERY LITTLE NAME RECOGNITION FOR SENATOR GILLIBRAND IF YOU GO TO OHIO OR SOUTH CAROLINA. THERE HAS BEEN SOME POLLING, WE ARE TALKING ABOUT MAYOR PETE FROM SOUTH BEND. THESE ARE THE SINGLE-DIGIT CANDIDATES.>>LIKE TRUMP WAS AT THIS POINT.>>THAT IS TRUE. A LOT OF CRITICISM IS JUSTIFIED, BUT AFTER CAMPAIGNING, EVERYONE WILL HAVE A CHANCE TO HAVE MET YOU. IF YOU DON’T HAVE A LOT OF NAME RECOGNITION, YOU HAVE A SHOT.>>SPEAKING OF SOUTH CAROLINA, BILL DE BLASIO SCHEDULED TO BE THERE. DOES ANYBODY CARE?>>HE DOES. BLASIO IS CIRCLING MADLY, SAYING “NOTICE ME.” THEN, YOU HAVE TO WONDER WHETHER CUOMO — HE SAID HE WAS NOT GOING TO RUN, BUT YOU KNOW HE IS JUST ITCHING TO JUMP INTO THIS RACE AND I GUESS HE IS NOT GOING TO RUN. WHO KNOWS? IF IT IS NOT TOO LATE, HE MIGHT BE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHETHER OR NOT HE CAN RUN NEW YORK TO BECOME VICE PRESIDENT OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. I CAN’T BELIEVE HE IS NOT IN THE MIX.>>HOW WOULD HE WHEN HE SAID HE WON’T RUN?>>IT IS LIKE THE BRITISH CHANCELLOR, THEY WILL HAVE TO CARRY HIM UP TO THE PODIUM AND MAKE HIM VICE PRESIDENT. I DON’T KNOW. GILLIBRAND, I HAVE WATCHED HER ON TELEVISION. SHE DOES NOT PROJECT, IT IS NOT LIKE BETO O’ROURKE. YOU DON’T FEEL THE EMOTION FROM HER THE WAY YOU DO FROM SOME OF THE OTHER CANDIDATES. MY SUSPICION IS YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO ENERGIZE THAT CROWD. I DON’T KNOW IF SHE CAN DO IT.>>THIS MAY SEEM LIKE A SILLY QUESTION, BUT WHY IS CHUCK SCHUMER NOT IN THIS MIX AT ALL? THIS IS NOT QUITE A RHETORICAL QUESTION, BUT GO AHEAD.>>I THINK IT IS AN EXCELLENT QUESTION. EVERY SENATOR AND PROBABLY EVERY CONGRESS PERSON LOOKS IN THE MIRROR AND SEES A FUTURE PRESIDENT. SCHUMER’S NAME NEVER SURFACES, EXCEPT MAYBE IN HIS OWN FAMILY. HE LOVES HIS JOB. HE WOULD LOVE TO BE THE MAJORITY LEADER.>>YOU HAVE TO PUT YOUR HAND UP AND I DON’T THINK HE’S EVER REALLY DONE THAT. I DON’T THINK HE IS EVER SAID I YEARN TO BE PRESIDENT AND MAYBE HE DOES. HE HAS NEVER REALLY PUT HIMSELF OUT THERE IN THAT WAY AND HE’S REALLY AN EXPERT ON LEGISLATION.>>WHICH IS WHAT HE’S DONE ALL HIS LIFE.>>IT IS SUCH A DIFFERENT SKILL SET TO RUN A COUNTRY.>>SPEAKING OF NEW YORKERS WHO HAVE LEAPT INTO PROMINENCE, JERRY NADLER OF THE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE.>>HE REALLY HAS. 81 PEOPLE HE WANTS TO INTERVIEW. HE IS GOING TO BE VERY VERY BUSY. HE SOUNDS AS THOUGH HE’S WORKING UP TO IMPEACHMENT. THAT IS WHAT IT SOUNDS LIKE TO ME. HE’S ALMOST SET IN A COUPLE OF TIMES AND I DON’T KNOW IF THAT IS WISE, BUT I THINK THAT IS WHERE HE SEEMS TO BE HEADED.>>IF I CAN USE THE WORD JUDICIOUSLY, HE HAS NOT MADE A BIG FUSS ABOUT IT BEFOREHAND AND POLITICALLY, DOES THAT MAKE SENSE OR IF THE DEMOCRATS WANT TO DEFEAT DONALD TRUMP, IS IT WISER TO DO IT AT THE POLLS RATHER THAN CONGRESS?>>I THINK THEY ARE DOING BOTH PATHS STRATEGY RIGHT NOW. WE DON’T KNOW WHAT WILL BE IN THE MUELLER REPORT. WE DON’T KNOW HOW MUCH DETAILED INFORMATION WILL BE PUBLIC, BUT CALL IT — EXPEDITION BY CALLING ALMOST THE SAME WITNESSES. THEY WILL HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO AIR ALL THIS INFORMATION. THEY HAVE TO SATISFY THE VERY ANGRY PROGRESSIVE BASE THAT IS CALLING FOR IMPEACHMENT. NANCY IS NOT CALLING FOR IMPEACHMENT. SHE HAS A MUCH MORE PRACTICAL MISSION.>>OBVIOUSLY, A LOWER SET OF PROOF RATHER THAN CRIMINAL CHARGES.>>THAT’S RIGHT. THIS BROUHAHA THAT TRUMP IS GOING TO RUN AGAIN BECAUSE HE DOES NOT WANT TO BE INDICTED BY THE NEW YORK PROSECUTORS.>>SO HE WOULD BE IMMUNE FROM CRIMINAL CHARGES IF HE’S PRESIDENT? HE CAN’T BE PRESIDENT FOREVER THOUGH, RIGHT?>>LET’S HOPE NOT.>>WHOEVER IS THE NEXT PRESIDENT, THERE’S STILL A LOT OF ISSUES ON THE TABLE THAT WILL EFFECT NEW YORK. TAX DEDUCTION, WHETHER THAT GETS BACK ON THE TABLE, THE GATEWAY TUNNEL, HOUSING AUTHORITY — WE SIGNED AN AGREEMENT WITH THE HOUSING AUTHORITY THAT GIVES NEW YORK NOTHING. MASS TRANSIT, WHICH WE COULD USE MONEY FOR. IMMIGRATION. WILL IT MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE IF THE DEMOCRATS REGAIN POWER?>>I THINK OF COURSE IT WILL. ALL OF THOSE THINGS ARE DEMOCRATIC POLICY PRIORITIES. AND, CLIMATE CHANGE. AT THIS POINT, THIS IS GOING TO BE AN ELECTION IN THE DEMOCRATIC FIELD. I THINK A LOT OF THAT ENERGY IS COMING FROM A PLACE LIKE NEW YORK.>>IT SEEMS TO ME THAT TRUMP AND SOME OF THE REPUBLICANS HAVE TAKEN A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF REVENGE AGAINST NEW YORK STATE AND THINGS LIKE THAT AND SCHUMER SAID THE OTHER DAY THAT TRUMP WAS HOLDING UP THE MONEY FOR GATEWAY, THIS GOES UNDERNEATH THE HUDSON RIVER AND SO THAT TRUMP IS HOLDING OUT ON THAT FOR SOME SORT OF FUTURE NEGOTIATION. I COULD BE WRONG, BUT I THINK A DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENT WOULD BE MUCH MORE AMENABLE TO PUTTING MONEY IN THAT SORT OF INFRASTRUCTURE.>>DID HE SAY WHAT IT WAS ABOUT?>>I DON’T KNOW IF HE SAID EXACTLY. I HAVE NOT HEARD EXACTLY. HE JUST SAID HE WAS HOLDING IT BACK AS AN ACE IN THE SLEEVE.>>EVEN IF THE DEMOCRATS DON’T TAKE THE PRESIDENCY, WHAT IS THE LIKELIHOOD THAT WOULD GET CONTROL OF BOTH HOUSE AND CONGRESS?>>I THINK THE SENATE IS STILL A LONG SHOT. THE MAP IS MUCH MORE FAVORABLE. IF TRUMP IS REELECTED, YOU HAVE TO ASSUME THAT HE WILL TAKE A LOT OF STATES THAT HAVE HAD CLOSE RACES, MAINE AND NORTH CAROLINA AND IOWA. THOSE ARE THREE OF THE MOST VULNERABLE REPUBLICAN SEATS. CORY GARDNER IN COLORADO. THE HOUSE IS AN INTERESTING QUESTION. DEMOCRATS ARE ON THE MARCH IN TERMS OF POLICY AND INVESTIGATIONS, BUT THE LEFT-WING OF THE PARTY FORGETS THAT THE REASON THEY HAVE MAJORITY OF THE HOUSE IS BECAUSE THEY FLIPPED 40 SEATS THAT REPUBLICANS HELD AND MOST OF THOSE WERE IN DISTRICTS THAT DONALD TRUMP CARRIED. IF THERE IS A WAVE, AND A LOT OF THOSE DISTRICTS COULD EASILY FLIP BACK.>>WHICH GOES TO YOUR POINT OF — VERY IMPORTANT — WHO THEY NOMINATE AND WHOSE ON TOP OF THE TICKET AND WHETHER THAT PERSON DRIVES PEOPLE AWAY OR DRIVES PEOPLE TO THE DEMOCRATIC TICKET. THANKS TO TRIP GABRIEL AND ELEANOR RANDOLPH FOR GIVING THE UPDATE ON THE 2020 ELECTION. I WILL HAVE SOME ADDITIONAL THOUGHTS NEXT ON MAYOR BLOOMBERG. ♪>>BEFORE HE DECLARED HIS CANDIDACY IN 2001, MIKE BLOOMBERG WAS ASKED WHY HE WANTED TO BE MAYOR. BECAUSE EVERYBODY TELLS ME THAT YOU CAN’T DO IT, HE REPLIED. DID I WANT TO RISK AN EMBARRASSING AND COSTLY FAILURE? ABSOLUTELY, HE SAID. HAPPINESS, FOR ME, HAS ALWAYS BEEN THE THRILL OF THE UNKNOWN. TRYING SOMETHING THAT EVERYONE SAYS CAN’T BE DONE, FEELING THAT PIT IN MY STOMACH THAT SAYS DANGER AHEAD. SO, WHETHER YOU HOPED HE WOULD OR NOT, THAT MIGHT LEAVE YOU WONDERING WHY HE DECIDED THIS WEEK NOT TO RUN FOR PRESIDENT IN 2020. HE SAID HE WOULD’VE BEATEN DONALD TRUMP AND COULD HAVE BROUGHT THE PARTIES TOGETHER. HE LISTED SOME OF THE CHALLENGES THAT HE SAID HE KNEW HOW TO FIX, TWO OF WHICH IN GOOD CONSCIENCE HE SHOULD’VE OVERLOOKED, HOMELESSNESS WHICH HIS MAYORAL ADMINISTRATION DID NOT REALLY REDUCE AND PROTECTING EVERY CITIZEN’S RIGHT TO VOTE, WHICH HE NEGLECTED TO DO WHEN HE BROWBEAT THE CITY COUNCIL INTO OVERTURNING THE REFERENDUM SO HE COULD RUN AGAIN. IN 2016, HE CONSIDERED RUNNING AS AN INDEPENDENT, BUT THE ODDS WERE DAUNTING. THE LAST TIME A THIRD-PARTY CANDIDATE BUMPED EITHER A DEMOCRAT OR A REPUBLICAN FROM SECOND-PLACE MUCH LESS FROM FIRST WAS WHEN TEDDY ROOSEVELT CAME IN SECOND BEHIND WOODROW WILSON IN 1912. BLOOMBERG ALSO CALCULATED THAT HE WOULD GET MORE VOTES FROM HILLARY CLINTON THAN SHE WAS ALREADY LOSING AND WOULD ELECT DONALD TRUMP. THIS TIME, HE IS MORE CONFIDENT ABOUT WINNING THE ELECTION THAN THE NOMINATION. THE DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL FIELD IS ALREADY AS CROWDED AS LAST WEEK’S BALLOT FOR PUBLIC ADVOCATE OF NEW YORK. WHICH MEANT BLOOMBERG MIGHT HAVE GOTTEN BY A GAGGLE OF PROGRESSIVES BUT PROBABLY NOT NOMINATED IF ANOTHER MODERATE LIKE BIDEN ALSO DECIDES TO RUN. LAST YEAR, BLOOMBERG PROVED HOW MUCH POWER HE CAN WIELD WITHOUT BECOMING A CANDIDATE. HE SPENT $100 MILLION SUPPORTING DEMOCRATS IN THE ELECTIONS. AT LEAST 21 OF THE 24 CANDIDATES HE BANKROLLED WERE ELECTED. THE CALCULUS IN 2016 WAS WHETHER HIS CANDIDACY WOULD HAVE DONE ANY HARM. IN 2020, IT SEEMS TO BE MORE A QUESTION OF WHETHER HIS TIME AND HIS MONEY COULD BE BETTER SPENT. FOR THE NEW YORK TIMES, AND CUNY TV, I’M SAM ROBERTS. ♪ [THEME MUSIC] ♪

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